Torn in Israel. Secular Kids in Religious Schools - part 2.

Without a doubt, "torn" is the way I feel about this entire issue and many of you used this exact word. I'd like to address some of your comments in this followup posting. I apologize in advance for not including them all -- I'll try to relate to them in the comments section from the previous posting.

Steg: Why are Israeli dati­ schools so maqpid/mahhmir on separation of sexes? Is this just another statistic to add to the "why Israeli Dati Le'umi and Diasporan Modern Orthodoxy are not the same thing" chart?

The same way Modern Orthodoxy in the US runs the gamut from LWMO to LW Yeshivish, you can't really map Dati Leumi onto Modern Orthodoxy. It means different things here...and alot of the pressing issues for US Modern Orthodoxy are dwarfed by much larger issues. Well, issues of more concern to your average Israeli.


Ra'anana Ramblings:
Raise the level of the secular school so the secular parents will prefer it to the religious school.

This is a good solution and the responsibility first and foremost of the municipality. Education should be everyone's number or two priority...not somewhere further down the list.

WestBankMama:
Your responsibility is to your children first.

Now I'm glad this came from WBM. Playing Devil's Advocate for a second, where does personal security come in to play at the expense of ideology? If your responsibility for children has to come first, wouldn't it be a safer place to live in the Galil than in the Shomron? Have you projected your own personal ideology onto your children, when your first responsibility should be having them in the safest environment possible? Obviously I have my own answers to this but I'm curious as to yours.

Jack:
If you want to bring more kids to the derech than I would argue to keep them in school.

The question is, what is the point of the school? To educate kids already on the derech (and try and keep them there), to bring more kids to the derech, or to find the happy medium. An important note: Israel's Ministry of Education isn't funding the school to reach out to secular students about Judaism.

Sabzi Aash

Keep extra kipot and tzitziyot in the classroom. Educate the kids to feel that they're something special. Have them make their own.

And if they come to school every day forgetting their own at home -- how do you think religious kids will view this? You can forget once or twice, but to "forget" every single day may impart the message that it's not important to these kids or their parents. As an FYI, the school already has extras in every classroom.

Ben-David

Remedial program would be a disaster - it would attach a "second-best" stigma to the irreligious, and undo any possible kiruv. It recalls the worst aspects of American "Sunday School" programs - condescending teachers spoon-feeding uninterested and increasingly resentful kids.

I think it would be difficult but not for the reasons you mentioned. The teachers are very caring and committed, and I don't think they would be condescending and spoon-feeding. The kids still want to go to this school because of the other advantages it has over the alternative secular school.

Ezzie:

I think blocking the secular kids out is a poor idea, for a variety of reasons, most having to do with chillul Hashem and how anti-religious this will make families who obviously are not at this point (or they wouldn't be willing to send their kid there no matter the education).

If parents are trying to send their kids to a religious school just to benefit from the higher academic quality and extcurricularlar activities, is it a Chilul Hashem if refused entry? Maybe if they really wanted to become religious... It's a difficult situation. I'm torn.

R' Gil Student:

How do the Shas schools handle this type of problem?

Shas schools are in a different situation lichatchila -- as their purpose is specifically outreach. I don't think there's an 80/20 ratio as there is in the school I'm describing. Additional important factors that cause parents to send their kids to Shas schools include:

- Free Hot Lunch (there are many families who can't afford hot lunches)

- Longer hours (more time for parents to work)

Shas specifically addresses lower income families with these enticements to get them to send their children to Shas schools. It is important to note that Shas then receives the electoral votes from the parents as a "thank you."

(And thank you R' Gil for dropping by!)

Yori Yanover
In any event, it's a delight to read about religious folks taking so seriously their roles as educators of their brothers and sister. 'shkoyach.

This was a very serious meeting and the issue was one of grave responsibility. I'm glad you appreciate our situation - your feedback (and everyone else's) is very much appreciated as it helps me formulate my position on this sensitive topic.

Ari K:
As far as what I think of the situation in Israel: A few years ago I sat next to a young woman from Ramat Aviv on a flight to Israel. She told me that in her entire life she had never seen Shabbat candles being lit until her visit to America! Something is wrong in Israel. I am by no means a Shasnick, but at least they are doing some real large-scale outreach among chiloni children.

The glass can be half full or half empty (and don't forget the RCA's recent resolution to foster a passion for Israel among US Jewry)

Anti-religious sentiment has been prevalent in some aspects of political Zionism since the State's inception. Cutting off the peyot of Yemenite Jewry in the 1950's is one example, integrating religious Ethiopian Jewry into totally secular Israeli communities is another, providing ZERO religious background to new immigrants from the ex-Soviet Union is yet another. A work colleague of mine from the Soviet Union has been in Israel for 10 years, and had never been taught any Jewish history that predated the 1880s. She has no knowledge whatsoever of why the State of Israel is located in Eretz Yisrael and not Uganda, had never heard the story of Purim, and has no clue of any stories from the Tanach.

On the other hand, despite the above, over 80% of Jewish Israelis observe some level of Kashrut, hold a seder on Pesach and fast on Yom Kippur. They know when all the Jewish holidays are, know how to read and speak Hebrew, and the majority of them are involved in day to day mitzvot for the benefit of Klal Yisrael; even if it's just by paying taxes, which provides security and social benefits for the Jewish people living in Israel today.

Compare that to the majority of Jews living in the US today -- what percentage of Reform Jewry know of the above?

Shas is far from the only group attempting to reach out to secular and masorti Israelis.

I could go on and on about the positive things in Israel, but we'll leave that for another posting.

Chodesh Tov!

Wherever I am, my blog turns towards Eretz Yisrael