Fox News reports network’s journalists kidnapped in Gaza on August 14 have been released by their Palestinian captors; earlier, journalists seen in video accusing Israel of using Apache helicopters, American weapons against Palestinian population (Ynet)Just think, all the dhimmi had to do was convert to Islam (and whatever else Fox had to pay off the Palestinians). Olmert is probably wondering how bad it would look for our IDF soldiers to convert as well...if it means they would get out of jail.
hat-tip: Fern
Update: Interesting thought raised by Sarah in the comments...about the permissibility of Jews to convert to Islam to save their lives.
Update: Interesting thought raised by Sarah in the comments...about the permissibility of Jews to convert to Islam to save their lives.
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ReplyDeleteNow if only we could get Gilad Shalit, Ehud Goldwasser and Eldad Regev back...
ReplyDeleteIt's an interesting concept... whether or not a jew/israeli can "convert" to Islam (in particular) if they are at risk (such as the captured soldiers) and that was a way to be able to escape/be freed alive.
ReplyDeleteJPost is reporting that there is a prisoner swap in the works to free the three Israeli soldiers being held by Hezbo/Hamas.
ReplyDeleteSarah--I actually talked about that very topic with my Rabbi once in regard to the Jews in medieval Spain who converted to Christianity...
Sarah: I would think that it's one of the "Big 3" sins that one should give their life for, as opposed to transgressing them.
ReplyDeleteThe only caveat, is that ostensibly according to the Rambam, Islam isn't considered "idol worship"...but I could see many reasons why accepting a forced conversion would be less than admirable.
In the past month, we saw heroic IDF bravery in face of the enemy -- including an officer who jumped on a grenade to save the lives of his fellow soliders. I doubt that such soldiers would accept a forced conversion.
I agree with you, it's not an option one would want accept but I guess I was thinking along the lines of "The only caveat, is that ostensibly according to the Rambam, Islam isn't considered "idol worship"" as a way to be able to save lives.
ReplyDeleteI have to read the last part but...Shabbtai Tzvi, anyone?
ReplyDeleteMoreover, why does your blog no longer permit anonymous comments?
I am glad they were released unharmed. Living and life obviously was very important to them and having to "say" they had converted to Islam and talk down about America and Great Briton, President Bush, and Tony Blair was a demand for their freedom. I supose you have to do what you have to do. I really do not see it as any big deal. I guess it pleased the idiots that took them in Gaza.
ReplyDeleteBless thema and their families. I am sure we will hear a lot more about this.
Thought you might want read these.
ReplyDeleteHere are a few comments I caught on this subject on another blog.
#1
With my big mouth..lol, I would have to go on TV after my release and tell them to take their koran, sociopathic "prophet", and his sock puppet god and shove it where the sun don't shine.
#2
Now that's he's Muslim I hope they give him the full body cavity search at JFK when he gets back to the states! You never know!!! Let's see if he refuses a drink on the flight on the way back. "Martini, Mr. Centanni?" "No ma'am, I'll stick with the Allah special: one glass of date juice with a sprig of fig and 72 ice cubes." LALALALALALALALALAALALLA
$3
Oh yeah, Mr. Centanni?
When you were hangin' out with your new respectable homies, did you happen to hear anything about the other "guest" currently partaking of palestinian arab "hospitality"?
Cpl. Gilad Shalit?
Remember him?
I do.
#4
How could they say they "respect" islam after that?
Their "conversions" don't mean a thing though. Really, who cares if they had to take some pagan oath to come out alive? They aren't muslims.
On the other hand, some do believe that selling your soul to the devil comes with a mighty powerful price...
#5
I know this is impolitic to say, If Islam is indeed The Religion of Peace, then where are the universal condemnations coming from Muslims in public on this forced conversion? (Cricket, Cricket)
#6
From FOX: ‘Palestinians who helped achieve their release.’ ‘Mobbed by Palestinian groups to wish them well.’ Smiling pictures of Hamas and Centanni. Not a negative word about the kidnappers. ‘Nothing against Islam.’ ‘Highest regard for them.’ 'Treated with the utmost respect and hospitality.'
#7
Lets hope that this was part of the negotiated settlement. And that Centanni and FOX renege and come clean on the deal once he’s clear of the vermin.
And the latest: 'This strange splinter group.'
#8
From FOX: ‘Palestinians who helped achieve their release.’ ‘Mobbed by Palestinian groups to wish them well.’ Smiling pictures of Hamas and Centanni. Not a negative word about the kidnappers. ‘Nothing against Islam.’ ‘Highest regard for them.’ 'Treated with the utmost respect and hospitality.'
#9
Lets hope that this was part of the negotiated settlement. And that Centanni and FOX renege and come clean on the deal once he’s clear of the vermin.
And the latest: 'This strange splinter group.'
#10
I bet they were lobotomized. Nobody in their right mind would adopt a death cult as their chosen "religion".
#11
Islam is a religion of hypocrisy and force, it promotes the abandonment of the faculties of reason that God created in our minds. Islam is a labyrinth of deceit and self-deceit.
#12
I hope these two journalists realize that now that they have converted, they won't be allowed to change their minds and leave Islam. After all, the punishment for apostasy is death.
#12
Isn't lying and deceit part of Islam?
Perhaps these guys only converted due to the gun and video camera in their face, the uncertainty of their future....
#13
Perhaps they thought if they lied about it for a while to get out of their hands, they might live. If anybody understands "acting" these guys would. The islamos might have been tricked by one of their own "holy" edicts of deceit.
#14
We will see if these reporters actually stay "converted".
#15
"I have the highest respect for Islam ." are these two clowns for real, or are they still held at gunpoint until they get their butts out of the mid east?
l saw the newsclips this morning of the two reporters being released to the PA officials, and the reporters looked terrified. You heard all day yesterday from Abbas how "he" was promised that the Fox reporters would not be harmed. you see its not for the safety of the reporters, but pa muslims need reporters to spread their lies. The muslim Palis need the media more than we need them. so that is why media is their "sared cow". The Israeli and US governments should do is kick out all media for a few months. see how the palis scream more.
#16
Once they leave the country, I think their story will change.
Since Islam is not a religion, but a doctrine based upon false theology which supports domination and destruction... these guys have not agreed to anything religious or spiritual.
It is the same as POWs confessing to "crimes" and "love for their captors". Once home, and out of the clutch of the enemy do you really think the POWs were communists?
#17
I think we need to give these guys a break, until we see them either continue to support Islam once home, or return to their former belief systems and denounce their conversions.
#18
Guys,
please, let's remember that they had to speak like that because they were UNDER SERIOUS THREAT TO BE KILLED.
It's too easy for us who are sitting in our homes to assume that they shouldn't have said what they said.
What if we experienced such a horrible experience? Would we say - while terrorists have their guns aimed at our heads - "Islam is a shit religion?"
Of course we wouldn't. Please, try to understand that the experience Centanni went through is not one of the best he has ever went through.
Yes, Islam is not a religion of peace, quite the opposite, as Robert writes.
BUT, in order to come out alive from a kidnapping, one is forced to lie and speak what he/she really doesn't think. So, Centanni has not converted to Islam. He said that in order to be freed.
Is this too hard to understand?
#19
Folks, you need to chill. I would gladly "convert" to get a loaded gun away from my skull, knowing I was just a short flight back to sanity where I could renounce my conversion safely.
I doubt Centanni and Wiig will stay muslim any longer than it takes to get to civilization. Maybe they will report how vile and treacherous this cult REALLY is. Maybe he will come out and refute the old saying, "religion of peace". Of course they wouldn't be able to stay in the middle east after that.
#20
This is silly. I'm glad the survived this experience and commend them for keeping a cool head under the circumstances. They were not "forced to convert", they were "forced to declare the muslim oath at gun point." Hell, I'll tell you my name is Mabel, if you stick a gun in my face, but I won't change my driver's license after the gun is gone. I advise these gents to go home, have a beer and a bbq pulled-pork samich, turn on women's beach vollyball, and thank whatever god they beleive in, if any, for living in a civilized country where all these things are availible.
What is odd, is how can anyone beleive that a threat of death will get a man to honestly change his religious convictions? It just goes to show how backward these people are.
#21
Re: "You can all relax they are no more muslim than I am."
I think you are right. But what vicious bastards would do this to them, force them to accept a belief-system, make them hypocrites in order to save their lives? I have nothing but contempt for these ignorant Islamic clowns who make people submit to their demented belief system. The silence of the Islamic clowns can be heard everywhere re this.
I probably would have done the same thing that they have had to do to save their lives. But afterward, I would hate the bastards who made me violate my self-respect and code of honor.
The blog no longer accepts anonymous comments because we had a bunch of neo-Nazis posting anonymously. We made the decision to block them. If you want to make provacative comments, be man (or woman) enough to sign your name.
ReplyDeleteYou can look up Igeret Hashemad, as mentioned by MORDY. If i remember correctly, Rambam says that if you're in a situation where you're going to be forced to convert you should first of all try and get out of there.
ReplyDeleteOf course that doesn't work if you're being held prisoner. The idea behind saying the Islamic Article of Faith is that as opposed to worshipping Jesus, which is considered idolatry, the only thing forbidden in saying "there is no God but God; Muhammad is the messenger of God" is that you're lying when you say [you believe] that Muhammad is the messenger of God. And since lying is not one of the Big Three, Rambam doesn't fault people who give in to the pressure (as long as they get the hell out of there as soon as possible afterwards).