Feiglin has just showed that he is so much bigger than Bibi.
Feiglin was interviewed on Mabat (Channel 1) and this is what he said.
To begin with Feiglin said he has no intention of taking his case to the Supreme Court - even though legally he should win.
First of all, because the Supreme Court is simply Left and he has no faith in it, secondly and more important, because he plans to enter the Knesset because of a large Likud and the will of the voters, and not because of some win in court.
Furthermore, he said Bibi is just shooting himself in the leg. He compared him to Sharon, who also went against the will of the voters. He said Bibi acted anti-democratically.
Feiglin has chosen to not rip apart the Likud in a legal battle. He has shown that he is the leader that Bibi is not.
Wherever I am, my blog turns towards Eretz Yisrael טובה הארץ מאד מאד
what do you guys have to say about this: http://www.kipa.co.il/now/show.asp?id=30571
ReplyDeleteIn the last two days I have contemplated three responses to Bibi's shenanigans:
ReplyDelete1) Not voting at all in February
2) Voting for a different party evn though I beleive that a small party is a wasted vote
3) Voting for a larger Likud despite Bibi and seeing Feiglin get in.
So far I'm going with the third option which is what Moshe Feiglin is saying. Nonetheless, Bibi is doing his best to try and lose my vote.
update the post with the mabat youtube video:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3rXlYB_HvA
I have now decided not to vote in this election. There is no point ! - Even if Feiglin gets in, the Likud will pull leftwards - as shown by Bibi tonight. The only thing 'left' to do is not vote. If less than 30% of the population decides not to vote at all - that will be really saying something to the politicians. Maybe a revolution in the making ????
ReplyDeleteShimon,
ReplyDeleteI wasn't impressed with what he said on so many levels.
At the most simplest level, if he defines the Likud as a Chiloni party (and it is not defined as such as far as I know) then no religious person has any right to be in the party.
Furthermore, Feiglin's position are quite in tune with the Likud's stated positions.
Dan Meridor has far less in common with the Likud's positions than Feiglin.
I found his comments to politically naive in terms of why people join, quit, or move political parties.
Uzi Landau switched parties because that is the only way Bibi will be forced to make him a Minister. He admittedly has very little in common with Lieberman's party. Is that immoral in his book too?
Third, his opinion completely ignores how the political system is set up in this country and who and where you have influence, and even reminds me of Efrat Shapira-Rosenberg diatribe.
I guess he/they want sectoral leaders with kipas who have no chance of breaking out of that ballfield since you can't lead the country from the minors.
Shimon, as a final thought, he was a member of the far left wing religious party Meimad. He believes in handing over Eretz Yisrael for "Peace". And he believes that soldiers should unequivocally follow orders regarding throwing Jews out of their homes.
ReplyDeleteI have trouble with someone with his value system saying that Feiglin's value system is immoral.
JoeSettler: [R. Amnon Bazak] was a member of the far left wing religious party Meimad.
ReplyDeleteThat's a good point: It makes me wonder what Bazak thinks of the "morality" of his buddy R. Michael Melchior turning over the chairmanship of Meimad to the completely secular Ami Ayalon. It's funny how he failed to mention that at all, isn't it?
Shimon
ReplyDeleteI listened to the first 3 minutes and could not stomach any more. The arrogance and demagoguery made me ill. In typical demagogic fashion, the good rabbi states "facts" as indisputable when in reality, his contact with the "actual" likud voters is minor at best.
As one who accompanied Moshe most of the day today, shuttling him from interview to interview I actually saw what the likud voters want (not to mention that they said so in the ballot box - or computer - as well) and it is not even close to what the good Rabbi alludes to. Moshe says it like it is and the "amcha" are loving it. He walks in the street and cars honk, people stop and shake his hand, old people kiss his hands and say thank you. I am sure the good Rabbi would dismiss this by saying "well those guys who are kissing his hands don't vote likud anyway" or some other similar nonsense. Thing is that I was also fortunate enough to be in the car with Moshe and hear the literally hundreds of phone calls that he received throughout the day. I can't tell you how many calls he got that started like this: "Hi... you don't know me... I am a Likud member and have been for many years... G-d bless you in and strengthen you in your fight... you are fighting for all of us and we will do anything you ask to help you out" and so forth. Calls from Bnei Braq, Ashkelon, Ashdod, Rosh Pina, etc. I was flabbergasted. So you tell me - who really knows what the likudnicks want? The guy who is spending over 20 hours a day fighting in the streets and courts for these people or the guy who is in the Beis Midrash (I would hope) for those same 20 hours.
Not to mention the incredible kiddush Hashem that Moshe is doing. I can honestly say that Moshe sanctified G-ds name more today than I probably have in my entire life. He has become the mouthpiece for so many of us who have been silenced by both a corrupt system as well as a corrupt moral compass. Moshe is being asked all the hard questions, including his views on homosexuality as well as other such topics and he never waivers. He never tries to "be liked" by saying what is politically correct. Everywhere he goes Torah views are being heard and they are beginning to penetrate. I witnessed secular reporters say "amein" to his blessing over a cup of water and saw how embarrassed they were to eat non-kosher in his presence. In one of the interviews the reporter even started to suddenly ask Moshe "Halachic" questions and confessed later that he was once religious.
Wow, and the good Rabbi has a problem with this?
I think its just jealousy at Moshes success where others have failed. The Meimad movement has for years tried to be the bridge to the secular Jews and have never had this much success and IMHO they are just plain envious.
Get over it - join us - and together we will overcome.
David
who will get moshe to change his mind and try to fight for the voter and what is right and not let the dictatorship establish a knesset that is right wing enough for him bc the whole list is manipulatable and they look to moshe for real principles and real destiny not just a very right wing israeli government GET MOSHE TO CHANGE HIS MIND AND FIGHT
ReplyDeleteI don't know. Somehow all this is reminding me a certain Natziv Beitar from Poland. First name Menachem. You know... THAT guy. With the polite Ashkenazi morals and tortured "I am more gentleman than you" attitude. They tried to kill him on the Altalena, and he told his people to turn in their weapons. 30 years in the opposition, useless, forgotten, making fiery speeches that nobody cared about. All sorts of miserable zeros from Mapai moved forward, became leaders, and he was a scarecrow. Because he was too "nice" to play their games.
ReplyDeleteAnd when finally, exhausted, old and pathetic, he did make it to the prime minister's office, he spread his legs like a harlot and did what even the most hard core leftists did not dare to do. He destroyed settlements, he gave land for a piece of paper, he got us into a quagmire he never intended to win. He, and not the leftists.
So don't talk to me about "noble" attitudes and being a leader. There is no difference between Likud and the other parties. They all want the same thing, and it is not the good of our country. Being their monkey boy and whipping post is not noble. It is stupid. They will never let him move forward. And if somehow he does move forward, they will kill him like they did all the other ones.
I do not know what the solution is. I don't think voting for a small, fragmented nationalist or religious party is the answer either. Despite good people who might be there.
Maybe the solution is for all those who care about Israel is not to vote at all in the next ellections. As for a mishal am. Like you know who suggested. Let the people decide. But not through rigged elections. With genuine national agenda. "Do we do this or that", "yes or no". We are in a war. There is no leadership. Things are about to get much worse. We should be pushing for misal am. For emergency patriotic leadership. Not for games... It's too late for games.
As far as I am concerned, this made up my mind about Feiglin. You know who said that there is no mitzvah to turn the other cheek. I thought Feiglin knew that.
just like gush katif they expect protest they expect right wing they expect strong feelings but no real change but when it is real theyll fight it snub voting and all of that this must be fought anyone in israel should get on the fone and protest do a recount call a referendum among the voters this cant be that people vote and then if it doesnt suit the partys heads they change it soo it is comfortably right wing all the votes protests shofars and crying and singing is all manipulatable until u try to make a difference how are we on this blog gonna actually not just blog but try to make a difference and call up manhigut yehudit and feiglin and think of ways to fight bc everyone else is right wing enough and negligable to be shlepped to ``pragmatic center`` we need to protect change with manhigut yehudit im LOOKING FOR HELP AND A DIFFERENCE SOMEONE HELP ME
ReplyDeleteTo all those saying Moshe should fight...
ReplyDeleteHow about YOU fighting? This is not his battle alone. He is representing us. What have we done - other than complain? Contrary to what you guys think, Moshe is not giving up the fight by any means - he is just changing its venue. Instead of focusing it on the "halls of Justice" he is taking the fight to the market places of the "Amcha". Moshe has not resigned by any means - he is going for a brilliant move that if successful can turn the tables on Baby - I mean Bibi.
While Baby and co. hope Moshe will just fade away, Moshe is planning to turn this vote into a vote for him - not the Likud. In other words, he is going to the streets and saying "if you want me in - YOU make it happen by voting likud - your vote, not legalise - will show that I am right".
This is the act of a true leader. Galvanizing the public much like Obama did.
So, to all those couch potatos that expect Moshe to fight for us all - guess what - it ain't gonna happen. You are just gonna have to get off your couch (or computer) - go to the streets - and help us all win.
Sure its a gamble - but actually its the only move we have. Moshe at 36 via strong public support and a noble move is way more powerful than Moshe at 20 due to the good graces of the BAGATZ.
Stop complaining and do...
David
I don't think he needs to fight it. You are not getting my point at all.... I think that even if he gets all the market places for him like you know who did ( and by the way, he won't - he looks too much of a classical vuzvuz and "intelegent" for that ), they still won't let him win. And if he gets close to winning, they will kill him. This was proven yesterday by Bibi's deplorable actions. So I am not suggesting at all that he go to Bagatz. I am suggesting that he stop playing by the rules.
ReplyDeleteWhen the game gets so crooked that you realize all the cards are rigged, there is only one thing left to do - turn the table over. Go back to the days of civil disobediance. Of demonstrations that block every junction. Of getting arrested every Monday and Wednesday. Of creating bad press for the bad guys. Of creating a truly popular movement. Of hammering home the point to the public that we are at war. That people are pouring sand over our eyes, but the reality is that we are at war and we are losing.
Go to the south and to the north. Organize civil disobedience, organize marches, organize things that will shake the conscience of this country.
I don't know what is going to happen. I feel that nothing good will happen unless we pray and repent and do good deeds. I pray every day for mercy. But somehow I feel that geula will not come in "chesed", but rather in force and only after we lose a lot of good jewish people first, and be on the verge of extinction. We are a heavy hearted nation, and we only learn the hard way.
Mi iyiten ve yavo bemehera be yamenu, ken yihi ratzon, amen ve amen.
It seems to me that R' Bazak is just upset that Moshe Feiglin said that Rabbis should stay out of politics.
ReplyDeleteEdel67: Organize civil disobedience, organize marches, organize things that will shake the conscience of this country.
Its a slippery slope. In a country that has no problem throwing people out of their homes (democratically, of course), and thinks that passive civil disobedience is treason and sedition, nothing really will shake the conscience of the country.
Case and point: Ehud Olmert is still running the show, despite resigning, yet refusing to give up his seat.
David: The Likud is the answer -- the problem is that Netanyahu will do so much damage, I'm not sure there will be much left once he is no longer in power.
There is a third reason not to take this to Bagatz, namely, that we are opposed in prionciple to Bagatz mixing in everywhere and we ought not be inviting them to do so.
ReplyDeleteOne issue you didn't mention is the Gila Gamliel factor. Even if the decision is outrageous and demoralizing, you've got to admire the poetic justice here.
See http://benchorin.blogspot.com/2008/12/i-promised-no-more-likud-posts-but-i.html
Ben: Too true, you are always right with your mathematical analysis. You would have thought that after the last elections, MY would have learned to not try these deals, but I guess they figured one little one wouldn't hurt.
ReplyDeleteFunny though. Moshe didn't explicitly mention that reason and this would have been a great opportunity to do so to put the Bagatz in its place. That's a treppenwitz moment for you.
Maybe the right answer is to show the weakness and hollowness of the current leadership, both left, fake right or centrist. Instead of trying to join them - expose them. Use the struggle of the people of Sderot. Use the misery of the weaker socio economic layers. Use the mess in the north and in the negev with crime. Show a consistent pattern. Declare yourself to be a non political movement, like Shalom Achshav. OK, don't do civil disobedience. Engage in propaganda. Educate. Spread leaflets, internet. Make sure you do everything legaly. There is a set of empirical rules developed by now of what works and what does not. What will be allowed and what not. Inside our great nation there is a conscience that has been suppressed by constant brainwashing and non jewish values. Bring it out. Make people proud again. Do not seek immediate gain. Educate. Work with the children. The next generation. Don't try to capture knesset seats. It is a lost battle. Only kadosh baruch hu can save this generation from complete extinction. But at least save our young ones. Teach judaism, the way it is meant to be. Withdrawal from evil and protest are loud voices and eventually they will be heared. There will come a day when the young generation will tell the evil leaders - leave now, you do not represent us.
ReplyDeleteBut trying to play by their rules to please them and beg for crumbs? No thanks. For what, to be a part of the next expulsion?
the reason why we fight is because it is the right thing to do and besides if your one vote will get feiglin in the knesset then alot of people wont vote for the likud
ReplyDeletehe needs to be high up safe enough in the knesset that likud is a right wing party not just a scary right wing prospect if anything at spot 36 its dangerous to give likud a extra seat
Anonymous:
ReplyDeletePost primary polls indicated that a Likud with Feiglin in spot 20 would do just as well.
Anonymous:
ReplyDeletePost primary polls indicated that a Likud with Feiglin in spot 20 would do just as well.
"It seems to me that R' Bazak is just upset that Moshe Feiglin said that Rabbis should stay out of politics. "
ReplyDeletedoesn't he come from the beit midrash that actively supports the idea that Rabbis have no special unique qualifications to be political leaders (naturally except for when it comes to their own rabbis.)
While I have no love for MY and MF for reasons enunciated elsewhere, I suppose that I do take some pride and "simcha laid" at the massive conniptions he gives people like Amnon Bazak and the rest of the intellctual yum-yums over at Har-Etzion and its satellite yeshivot.
"Just had to deal with a car accident outside our settlement."
ReplyDeleteIs 'settlement' a Jewish word for 'town'? Or am I not understanding correctly?
Blogagog: Traditionally, the word "settlement" refers to Jewish towns on the Eastern side of the Green Line (Jewish towns in the West Bank).
ReplyDeleteThx for the info. Stay safe!
ReplyDelete