The Right (and of course the Left) are strongly criticizing Bibi right now for what he said, and international pressure and criticism is sure to follow quickly.
The Right can either repeat the mistakes of the past and bring back Kadima and Meretz (imagine if it had been Tzippy Livni giving that speech), or it can strengthen Bibi on all the positive points he said (which would have been completely never mentioned or disregarded if Kadima was in power).
- The unashamed historical rights of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel, including Judea and Samaria (and unconnected to the Holocaust).
- His acknowledgment of us Settlers as brother, Zionists, and pioneers, and not enemies of the State, nor enemies of peace - perhaps his most important statement.
- His unequivocal statement declaring Jerusalem as the unified and undivided capital of Israel - forever.
- A fully and completely demilitarized Arab entity which must first recognize Israel as a permanent Jewish State (did you think he would call for transfer?)
- His support for continued growth of the Settlement enterprise in Israel's Biblical heartland of Judea and Samaria.
He specifically said, "With God's help". When was the last time you heard a Prime Minister of Israel invoke the name of God.
Until Netanyahu actually veers Left, and acts contrary to his stated positive positions in the speech, the Right has little to worry about, so long as it continues to openly support him against the powerful and overwhelming international pressure he is sure to face.
And after a speech like that Bibi deserves our support right now, more than ever.
I am far from an avid Bibi supporter, but his speech tonight, was by far the most Zionistic and refreshing speech made by any Israeli Prime Minister since Shamir spoke in Madrid (I remember that speech, and the Arab reaction, which was that it was the first time they ever heard that Jews had any history in Israel at all).
The Right wing took out Shamir after Madrid. Please don't make that mistake again so quickly.
-A joint post by JoeSettler and Jameel
Wherever I am, my blog turns towards Eretz Yisrael טובה הארץ מאד מאד
I thought he was brilliant and have said so on my blog as well, saying basically the same points you have made. I am so angry at the reaction I am seeing from the right wing leaders...and plead with them alongside you that they are NOT SO FOOLISH as to bring him down. www.todayinisrael.blogspot.com
ReplyDeletelook, it was a great speech.
ReplyDeletethe fact of the matter is that any state he mentioned will never come about.
the right has nothing to worry about. if they do anything stupid I will never evewr supporet a right wing party again as they will have shown they are stam nutjobs complete ideolugues with zilcho understanding of the world we live in today and they are very dangerous as well.
Aderaba if in fact the arabs really came to terms with a Jewish state (fat chance and it has to bee for real not some bogus show like arafat yemach shemo did with clinton yemach shemo
then hey why not make peace with the caveats Netanyahu set up and must stand firm like a rock on. you know Moshiach has not come yet. if Jenin and Kalkilya etc. are to remain under arab control well we are still prior to our ultimate Geula. Let Hashem work at His own pace. Talk to the rock do not hit it.
If JoeSettler and Jameel like the speech, I think Yesha probably concurs as well. I don't think Israel can put itself into the position of saying "no" to peace. Let the Arabs do it as they have done for 60 years. Israel is not offering the Palestinians a state on a silver platter or as a concession but as a reward if they also make compromises for peace. Thus far, there is no sign they are willing to abandon their extremist ideology that says Israel must provide them with the means to ensure its own destruction. And his main priorities anyway are Iran, the economy and national unity. Netanyahu isn't going to invest political capital in something that in all likelihood will never happen.
ReplyDeletemy twenty agurot... I though he was great. He learned and said so- giving them more would bring us war. A lesson learned. Kol ha kavod. Settlers - not the enemy- good. Invoking our right to this land based on G-d's Say So, through our forefathers. Very good. We want oeace - good. We want Gilad Shalit- good. Look, there was stuff I didn't love- but There was more things I loved. He told Obama- NO- You Can't. That's fine with me. And if the far right don't like it- then the message is truly lost. We are one, lets stand and say we are here. No compromises on our well being. I think he did a fine job. Hashem Will be smiling tonight. Lt's just let this brave man have one night of peace before the --- hits the fan...
ReplyDeleteI just read the English text of the speech and thought it was a great speech. Everything he says is true and though I've never been a huge Bibi fan it's refreshing to see a prime minister who'll stand up to America. I doubt the Arab or Palestinian leaders will grab the olive branch Bibi extended, and I'm sure it'll still be Israel's fault, but at least Bibi is being true to the people who elected him.
ReplyDeleteIt was a good speech, no question. He was boxed in and could have either tried to break out and ruin the relationship with the U.S. Or he could try to stretch the box as far as he could and tie the U.S. hands with a velvet rope. He did the latter. The Obama administration can't criticize Israel too much without appearing overtly pro-Palestinian and if this were a logical world, the Palestinians would not be able to outright reject it without exposing the fact that they really don't want land for peace but instead want land - all of it - free of Jews. But unfortunately, this isn't a logical world and they (the Palestinians) will get a pass on this too, because they've already played their cards.
ReplyDeleteI interpreted Bibi's position as essentially turning back the clock to pre-Oslo, except that now the Israeli public has seen with their own eyes the perils of dealing with the Balesdinians. And paid with their lives for it.
ReplyDeleteGoing way back to Menachem Begin's Camp David accords, a demilitarized state without control of its airspace/borders is not too far from the "full autonomy for the Palestinian Arabs" pictured by that great Israeli.
I thought Bibi hit the right notes, and said so on my blog, too.
The Palestinians said they were so disappointed by Bibi's speech they were going to launch a new intifada. Sounds like the speech went well.
ReplyDeleteJameel: "When was the last time you heard a Prime Minister of Israel invoke the name of God?"
ReplyDeleteThe last time I heard it was from Arik Sharon, just before disengagement, when he threw in the phrase "Im yirtzeh Hashem" - l'hach'is, IMO.
I don't think Bibi's offhand mention of G-d in the very last sentence of his speech is much to get excited about, but the rest of his speech was very smart. The Arabs will not be able to bring themselves to any kind of reciprocity; they will in effect torpedo their own program, and there is no danger of us ever being held to Bibi's "promises" - as long as Bibi himself holds firm to his principles (which is itself not necessarily a sure bet).
I think it's a good thing that the Right should schrei gevalt about his "concessions", because we should never allow ourselves to become accustomed to the idea that a Pal state is a good thing. And it also allows Bibi to point to his own coalition members and say to the world, "I can't go too far, because my own party will throw me out!" Nice for Israel to have plausible deniability for a change.
The single biggest disappointment of his speech was his failure to mention Jonathan Pollard. Perhaps he felt he's given enough of a finger to Obama, and he didn't want to push his luck by making further demands.
All told, I'm pretty happy with the way things have turned out.
Right on boys! You guys nailed it.
ReplyDeleteSaying that we'd give them a state as soon as they recognize our right to exist is the same as saying they'll never have a state.
ReplyDeleteShaul B: Actually - I didn't know Joe was going to write that point about mentioning G-d's name. I would have left that out...(I contributed to the post via telephone).
ReplyDeleteMy Bad. Every time I hear an Israeli politician mention God, I get surprised. I'll take it out.
ReplyDeleteRead the latest post about the major downside of the speech.
I also thought it was an excellent speech.
ReplyDeleteI woudn't worry too much that the Right will try to take him down just for saying the "magic words." He made it very clear that he's what he's offering isn't anything that there's reason to get too upset about, and if it makes the world happy to call it a state, then so be it.
I think that those on the Right who are making noise are doing so with a wink, with Bibi's full consent, so that he can turn around and tell Obama he can't go too far because of the political pressure back home.
Here we go again - the old argument...It was Tchiya that took down Shamir ... yadi yada - hogwash.
ReplyDeleteBlame the victim ... again. I am so sick of hearing "don't be right - be wise" that if I hear it again I will scream. NO - we are the Jewish people. We do what is right. We let G-d figure out what is wise. When someone veers - we let them know. If it means going to elections - so be it.
My feelings about Olmert aside, you know, Olmert by comparison was not so bad. He was more right wing than any of the previous or current PMs. He went to two wars to fight terror, did not relinquish one inch and never publicly conceded our right to this country.
Your argument regarding Bibi reminds me of the allegorical boiling of the Frog.
Topple Bibi today - before its too late.
David, calm down.
ReplyDeleteWe're all on the same page - and so, honestly, is Bibi. The conditions he attached to forming a Pali state - recognition of Israel as a Jewish state, demilitarization, united Jlem, no refugees - are very reasonable, and the Palis will never say yes. So Bibi has IMO very cleverly finessed the external pressure by appearing to endorse a Pali state, but it's as meaningful as endorsing Stan's right to have babies (Life of Brian).
Bibi doesn't believe in G-d, and you can't expect him to give a speech that only a Man of Faith could. For a man without faith, I think he did damn well.
Meanwhile, if you want a PM who speaks in the name of G-d, then why haven't you joined the Likud?
David: Could you please say who the 61 MKs will be who will topple Bibi, and who do you expect will realistically replace him?
ReplyDeleteTchiya that took down Shamir ... yadi yada - hogwash.
Why is that hogwash? If Techiya and Moledet hadnt taken down Shamir, then there would have been another full year to build yishuvim...which ground to a halt with the onslaught of Rabin's election and Oslo.
How is that factually incorrect?
First of all to answer Shaul - I am a member of Likud and have been for about 10 years (thanks to Moshe - that is).
ReplyDeleteAs for MKs - who would have thought two years ago that enough MKs would be mustered to oust Olmert...
I think I saw Yariv Levin quoted as one of the three Likud MKs who expressed their disagreement with the PM, by saying something like "it might be a good tactical move, but it is a bad strategic move."
ReplyDeleteBut fact is, 24 out of 27 Likud MKs disagree with Levin, or aren't worried (the poritz will die or the dog will die).
I wonder at what point this pragmatism will turn into indignation for all our Great Right Hopes in the Likud.
I am very impressed with Hotubeli, who I discussed supporting her with her before the primaries, specifically my fear that she was a Bibi yesman in Ulpanistit's clothing, and if not, why would Bibi bring her in? She said she's an idealogue, Bibi knew that, and evidently he preferred her electoral value and other qualities over the chance (or probability, as he may have realized at the time) that she would do exactly what she did, namely, stand strong against him when the time would come.
He's a shrewd one, that Bibi.
FROM CAROL HERMAN
ReplyDeleteI'm one of those women who can care less about sports; but I've seen a lot of them, just the same.
If you want knockouts, you must go to heavy weight boxing championships. Nothing else works the same.
If you love politics, however, you'll notice it's dirty water. And, to win you develop personality traits that go over well with lots of people.
Yes, there are factions! The whole purpose of democracy is to let all the voices rise. But very few, especially from the margins, go all that far. (Sometimes? They're just local spitting contests.)
And, just like when you spit in the ocean. Good luck to ya, if you think you're doing anything to fill it.
On the other hand, you can sense how politicians are doing. In Israel? You know Livni thought she won. Because she got one chair more than Bibi. But Shimon Peres gave the "blessing" to Bibi. And, Ehud Barak held onto his Defense Portfolio for dear life. (As Labor really shrank!)
Now, when you look at iran, you see that IF you want to lord it over a population; you need to mix religion to the GUNS. Without the guns and the goons you're not going to succeed.
ANd, who knows? Ahmadinijad may bite the dust. ANd, the "kakamamie kohatami-koha-meany ... may also get tossed ahead? Otherwise there will be lots of dead people.
Oh, yes. There are already lots of dead civilians. SOme of them being killed by arab speakers; sent "special" by syria and Lebanon. Palestinian goons have been mixed in. Killing kids. Firing into the eyeballs of civilians. Because they can.
However? It's possible some in the military have "shifted" ... And, are protecting the population that wants to protest.
That leaves 5,000 to 10,000 arabs ... among millions of iranians.
By jove, Jimmy Carter went to gaza at the wrong time to be of much influence, ahead.
Real people. Real angry.
Bibi gave a great speech.
Obama, meanwhile, will learn to hunker down in the White House. Like Nixon. He got to the top of a party's ticket; and he can yet kill the party by outraging your typical democratic voters. Watch and see. I'm not the Oracle at Delphi.