tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post113559052632541346..comments2024-03-27T07:01:13.725+02:00Comments on The Muqata: Erev Shabbat Creations - What the Godol Hador Never Addressed.Jameel @ The Muqatahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15890095633246557332noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-1136041942240942852005-12-31T17:12:00.000+02:002005-12-31T17:12:00.000+02:00Jameel...a truly amazing story! Thanks for providi...Jameel...a truly amazing story! Thanks for providing such interesting material on your site. I visit rarely but enjoy my visit every time! <BR/><BR/>Be'tikva, Eitan.<BR/><BR/>p.s. You've probably seen the new posters w/ Omri and Ariel sharon reading "Kadima le'keleh"-I thought that was real good stuff when I saw one here in telli. As u probably are well aware of, tel-aviv is a gigantic dump aka "Yeshiva Meretz" as a good friend of mine once alluded to it:)Eitan Ha'ahzarihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17112407136416885944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-1135877329711964142005-12-29T19:28:00.000+02:002005-12-29T19:28:00.000+02:00HAVE I HEARD THIS STORY BEFORE?HAVE I HEARD THIS STORY BEFORE?AMSHINOVERhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07680072149053035110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-1135858968606637612005-12-29T14:22:00.000+02:002005-12-29T14:22:00.000+02:00GH: We're honored to have you drop in for a look.O...GH: We're honored to have you drop in for a look.<BR/><BR/>OK...so its a question on the Rambam. I wonder what he would say about my camera?<BR/><BR/>New post coming later today....Jameel @ The Muqatahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15890095633246557332noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-1135796195491121572005-12-28T20:56:00.000+02:002005-12-28T20:56:00.000+02:00Whats the kashye? That mishneh is not literal. Ram...Whats the kashye? That mishneh is not literal. Rambam holds the donkey didn't talk, so you could ask the same kashye on the Rambam. Remember: Aggadata is not literal. Not a hard conceptr to grasp.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-1135776504265944272005-12-28T15:28:00.000+02:002005-12-28T15:28:00.000+02:00Zion Report:heck, a lot of comments lately"If you ...Zion Report:<BR/><I>heck, a lot of comments lately</I><BR/><BR/>"If you build it they will come"...<BR/><BR/><B>Truth.</B>Truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10418387285462718534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-1135759872353179842005-12-28T10:51:00.000+02:002005-12-28T10:51:00.000+02:00This makes 30!This makes 30!JoeSettlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01232647820807408898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-1135730061382618672005-12-28T02:34:00.000+02:002005-12-28T02:34:00.000+02:00I was reminded of my experience in a hafgana (the ...I was reminded of my experience in a hafgana (the same one?) where my camera was saved too and I managed take some photos. I have dug them out and have <A HREF="http://knifedge.blogspot.com/2005/12/hafgana-in-geula-on-chanuka.html" REL="nofollow">posted</A> about it over on my blog.Karlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02826622177233601479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-1135688700811029662005-12-27T15:05:00.000+02:002005-12-27T15:05:00.000+02:00Truth: Thanks for the compliment and interesting r...Truth: Thanks for the compliment and interesting reply. I'll have to invite GH himself to reply.<BR/><BR/>Jack, Joe, and Cosmic: Mrs. Muqata mentioned to me earlier today that while she found the above posting interesting and well-written, she doubted whether all the details were precise or slightly exaggerated.<BR/><BR/>I would like to categorically state that I would sign an affidavit affirming the truthfulness of the posting. There is one blogger out there who reads my blog who can vouch for the story, as he was there with me at the time.Jameel @ The Muqatahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15890095633246557332noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-1135683475336050412005-12-27T13:37:00.000+02:002005-12-27T13:37:00.000+02:00Great post!Great post!Cosmic Xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13880746347107372827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-1135676934771724382005-12-27T11:48:00.000+02:002005-12-27T11:48:00.000+02:00Truth: Interesting.Truth: Interesting.JoeSettlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01232647820807408898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-1135669288988382232005-12-27T09:41:00.000+02:002005-12-27T09:41:00.000+02:00That is a hell of story.That is a hell of story.Jack Steinerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16625864271071630940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-1135665896902911062005-12-27T08:44:00.000+02:002005-12-27T08:44:00.000+02:00Jameel,Your blog is getting better by the minute.....Jameel,<BR/><BR/>Your blog is getting better by the minute...<BR/><BR/>I actually answered some of those 'Bereisheit' [regarding the first six days] questions, using a clear evaluation of the pshat text.<BR/><BR/>This is my response from that 'discussion' on the GH blog:<BR/><BR/>"By the 7th Day, Shabbat, the 'man' and 'woman' in their final form had been created, as well as vegetation and animal life, and all of the 'natural laws' [which if you look into it, Bereishit 1:14-1:19, on the 'fourth day'] you will see that it's a logical theory to presume that a 'day was a [24 hour] day' by the time 'man' was there.<BR/><BR/>It says there clearly, ..."l'havdil ben haYom u'ben halaila"... [to seperate between the Day and the Night. Now, please note, here when referring to creation of Day, Night and furthermore, "l'otot u'l'moadim u'l'yamim u'l'shanim" [for signications/signs(time itself, IMO) and seasons and days and years].<BR/><BR/>Therefore, the straight pshat is that before the fourth day, there was no time, seasons, days or years.<BR/><BR/>No need to do mental gymnastics or torturous contortions to see that, is there?<BR/><BR/>The kicker is, GH spoke so vehimently about how, "A [yom]/day is a day, that's all!"<BR/><BR/>OK, so following that logic, why does the Torah say there, "the Day" and "the Night" in that part, and then refers to "Yom Revi'i"[4th Day, note, there is no letter 'hey' there] - it seems kind of clear that in the first case the Torah means 'a [24 hour] day' in the usual sense, whereas a 'Day' of creation is something else [perhaps an era?], exactly what else is something to look into more deeply.<BR/><BR/>Unless of course, some pesky 'Rabbinical Jew[s]' saw this problem however many years ago after you hold 'they wrote' the Torah, and inserted the extra 'hey' letters ['the' in English, an article specifier] where appropriate "just to make it [the Torah] work out".<BR/><BR/>Finally, once the 'Creation was Finished', in Bereishit 1:31:<BR/><BR/>'..it was very good...It was evening and it was morning, the sixth day.' [yom haShishi]<BR/><BR/>There we go, now the world/universe was done, it was very good [instead of just good, therby indicating a finished product], and 'Day' [era?] of creation becomes 'the Day' [as in what we have now], and this is apparently where we begin our 'count' from.<BR/><BR/><BR/>No need for the 'created old' foolishness, 'planted evidence in the fossil record [sic]' nonsense.<BR/><BR/>The universe took however long it took to be Created, and time only became relevant from when this process was finished [yes, it had to be a process, otherwise the Torah could easily just have said, "God created everything", in one pasuk, then 'gotten on with the story'. Also, the 'Mystics'(Kabbalists) wouldn't call it 'a series of Divine utterances', they could've just called it a 'snapping of the fingers', so to speak].<BR/><BR/>Finally, that's my personal theory, and to me it really doesn't matter if I'm correct or not - God did it, He knows the details, and the best we can do is try to do what He wants us to do, in order to fulfil the purpose for this Creation - after all, it's kind of useless to understand the mechanics [or even try to], without actually trying our best to use it properly..."<BR/><BR/>No one 'flamed' me for that, but interestingly enough, GH's only reply to that was [more or less], "OK, so fine, but what about the other ten chapters following that."<BR/><BR/>I didn't respond to that question on the GH blog, but I will say what I think here: The actual decription of 'the Days of Creation' are a completely literal description of Creation, as I explained above [as long as one has enough reading comprehension in Hebrew to prevent 'mangling' the text through faulty 'translation', like the famous 'thou shalt not kill' mis-interpretation (which is really written, 'thou shalt not murder), for example].<BR/><BR/>God told us:<BR/><BR/>1) that He made everything.<BR/>2) how He made it. [The more one learns, of both Torah, 'metaphysics' [ie, 'drash' and 'sod'] and Science fact, the deeper understanding one can aquire, up to the limits of human capacity.<BR/><BR/>After clearly establishing these facts of Creation [and the most important fact: God is the Cause, the creation is the effect, and how we act/what we do effects how it all turns out], the Torah goes on to tell us how to use this Creation that God gave us.<BR/><BR/>Don't forget, it's clearly written there in Beresheit, that God tells us [mankind], that now that He's done with Creation, we have to abide by the natural laws [ie, not to wreck the planet (physically)], because He won't fix it.<BR/><BR/>Naturally, there is far more to say about this, but this post is already exceedingly lengthy.<BR/><BR/><BR/><B>Truth.</B> <BR/><BR/>8:15 AMTruthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10418387285462718534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-1135664130893319432005-12-27T08:15:00.000+02:002005-12-27T08:15:00.000+02:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10418387285462718534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-1135660329453085932005-12-27T07:12:00.000+02:002005-12-27T07:12:00.000+02:00GReat post and story!Mirty, are you kidding? It's ...GReat post and story!<BR/><BR/>Mirty, are you kidding? It's after Licht-benching [a FULL 40 minutes before sunset here in Yerushalayim!] that my wife asks me, "Oh, I forgot...", "could you please......." etc.<BR/><BR/>Good Shabbos, y'all !yitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08523302947845887661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-1135645230238000662005-12-27T03:00:00.000+02:002005-12-27T03:00:00.000+02:00Sorry, Mirty - I'm almost always doing last-second...Sorry, Mirty - I'm almost always doing last-second things after the 18 minute mark... Fridays just seem to be too short. A friend noted to me this Shabbos about himself: "Why is it that no matter how little I have to do, and what time Shabbos is, I still find myself rushing to take a shower right before shabbos?! I had NOTHING to do today - and I still barely made it. Why?!"Ezziehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12494592434522239195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-1135636771746515282005-12-27T00:39:00.000+02:002005-12-27T00:39:00.000+02:00I love this post. Feel bad for the family who were...I love this post. Feel bad for the family who were out a camera and probably some nice photos of their baby, though....I am willing to get behind the "camera as 11th item" movement. You have made me a believer....MC Aryehhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15391548803569665725noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-1135632325187095452005-12-26T23:25:00.000+02:002005-12-26T23:25:00.000+02:00I'm sure R' Gil can enlighten us with some fascina...I'm sure R' Gil can enlighten us with some fascinating info about the 18 minutes before shabbat rush.<BR/><BR/>(And in Jerusalem, its alot longer - close to 40 minutes)Jameel @ The Muqatahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15890095633246557332noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-1135630205812272102005-12-26T22:50:00.000+02:002005-12-26T22:50:00.000+02:00HH: I have NO clue who you're talking about!;-)HH: I have NO clue who you're talking about!<BR/><BR/>;-)Jameel @ The Muqatahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15890095633246557332noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-1135629541664486582005-12-26T22:39:00.000+02:002005-12-26T22:39:00.000+02:00Ezzie: I can't touch GH on B'reishis :)Alan: It wa...Ezzie: I can't touch GH on B'reishis :)<BR/><BR/>Alan: It was very weird, but the guy definitly wanted to kill me. I don't know if the same hatred would be there today...but this did take place a few years back.<BR/><BR/>Irina: All the items in the mishna are slightly "odd". The mouth of the ground is what swallowed up Korach and his followers...the talking Donkey was that of Bila'am.<BR/><BR/>Email me for more info on the mishnaJameel @ The Muqatahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15890095633246557332noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-1135629019074075632005-12-26T22:30:00.000+02:002005-12-26T22:30:00.000+02:00Ezzie is right. Those that dwell too much into Ber...Ezzie is right. Those that dwell too much into Bereshit turn insane. The last person to get into Bereshit too much was an incredibly bright writer. He ended up turning into some Ultra left leaning quack blogger. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-1135625698251169122005-12-26T21:34:00.000+02:002005-12-26T21:34:00.000+02:00Jameel, great post. Only suggestion: Don't try to ...Jameel, great post. Only suggestion: Don't try to get into a debate on B'reishis... :)Ezziehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12494592434522239195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-1135623101693715182005-12-26T20:51:00.000+02:002005-12-26T20:51:00.000+02:00What a story!What a story!FrumGirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06938604279533529932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-1135620542489207442005-12-26T20:09:00.000+02:002005-12-26T20:09:00.000+02:00I'm a bit busy at home and will answer some questi...I'm a bit busy at home and will answer some questions about the story soon.<BR/><BR/>However, the pictures that came out weren't overly impressive (which is probably the downside to the entire story).<BR/><BR/>I'll look for them after the kids are in bed.Jameel @ The Muqatahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15890095633246557332noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-1135619019334572462005-12-26T19:43:00.000+02:002005-12-26T19:43:00.000+02:00Hey JameelNice to see my name in the post :) Anywa...Hey Jameel<BR/><BR/>Nice to see my name in the post :) Anyways, I would guess that GH would state that all those things there were created are not to be taken literally. I don't take them literally for instance. The Rambam never took the talking donkey as literal, but a dream. Its really not that problematic to someone who thinks the entire bereshit story is a metaphor. I would suggest the biggest problem, that GH has "tried" to deal with, is the issue of the Torah explicitly naming the lineage from Noah to Abraham. If Noah is a moshol then what about the rest of the family tree all the way to Abraham? Where does myth end and reality begin? A possible answer to that might be that there really WAS an person called Noah that God used for the story. But then you get into other questions of why would God use this particular Noah for the story and create a myth around him. Unless perhaps some sort of flood did happen. I think Gil wrote about this subject once. He stated that some stories about bereshit were known well before and some may have been passed down in writing. Perhaps this would explain some of these questions, considering over time, some of the stories may have been distorted.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-1135617786663403582005-12-26T19:23:00.000+02:002005-12-26T19:23:00.000+02:00What a story! That's so creepy... But what does th...What a story! That's so creepy... But what does the Mouth of the Donkey have to do with the rest of the items created? Does it have any special significance?Irina Tsukermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10964771563778702009noreply@blogger.com