tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post5402588212758575988..comments2024-03-10T08:13:34.023+02:00Comments on The Muqata: Single Frum Mom 2 BJameel @ The Muqatahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15890095633246557332noreply@blogger.comBlogger102125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-14530148233529646772011-01-14T05:59:05.359+02:002011-01-14T05:59:05.359+02:00That would be an issur d'oreita. But if you ar...That would be an issur d'oreita. But if you are into that sort of thing...Brucenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-42852145372943030782011-01-13T23:37:13.358+02:002011-01-13T23:37:13.358+02:00Based on this thread, I'm sure glad I'm no...Based on this thread, I'm sure glad I'm not married to someone like Joesettler.Shlomonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-74663903656865784332011-01-13T16:47:41.130+02:002011-01-13T16:47:41.130+02:00Comment #100!
Woo-hoo!Comment #100!<br /><br />Woo-hoo!No it's notnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-70018349463488607942011-01-13T16:40:38.585+02:002011-01-13T16:40:38.585+02:00THIS THREAD IS CLOSED<b>THIS THREAD IS CLOSED</b>JoeSettlernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-18931736856744104072011-01-13T16:33:52.817+02:002011-01-13T16:33:52.817+02:00Man wanting Child: What can a man do in the situa...Man wanting Child: <i>What can a man do in the situation where he can't find a woman to marry him but he wants a kid. If a man wrote a letter like this he would likely be lynched!</i><br /><br />Typical male misogynist attempt to divert attention from the plight of women. You're even worse than JoeSettler. I find your hate-filled, snide implication of male superiority disgusting.Annenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-68704009228022194742011-01-13T15:49:53.241+02:002011-01-13T15:49:53.241+02:00"I would have liked to ask about what outreac..."I would have liked to ask about what outreach there is for women in this situation (yearning to have a child) in contrast to blanket announcements such as the one by Rav Lior the other week. But don't bother to reply I'm not reading anymore and most anyone who has what to say isn't either."<br /><br />What can a man do in the situation where he can't find a woman to marry him but he wants a kid. If a man wrote a letter like this he would likely be lynched!Man wanting Childnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-66911443470008421032011-01-12T18:12:55.748+02:002011-01-12T18:12:55.748+02:00I have to confess that I have been following this ...I have to confess that I have been following this thread, but I never bothered to read the original post beyond the text of the woman's letter. And after reading all the things written here by pp, abbi, rivka, et al., I admit that I became just as pissed as they were at joesettler. But after seeing rachel's comment above, I decided to finally go back and read joe's full post. Now I am ashamed for having joined the wolf pack (mentally, at least).<br /><br />Rachel is right on the mark about the post being very respectful and thoughtful. I don't know where the heck you all got this strange notion that there's anything at all "judgmental" or "misogynistic" about it, the post contains nothing of the sort. The exact opposite is true. It's like we're talking about two different posts. You people have just created an imaginary straw man, and are now tring to lynch it. And that's a shame, because joe's post deserved a serious discussion, not the ridiculous barrage of attacks out of left field that polluted this thread.<br /><br />Given all the misogynistic attitudes that actually <i>do</i> exist out there, joe's sensitive and intelligent post was a breath of fresh air. It's a shame that this got washed away in a massive flood of baseless vitriol.mspnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-20785315302952810752011-01-12T17:31:05.387+02:002011-01-12T17:31:05.387+02:00pp: Sad that you can't see the difference bet...pp: <i>Sad that you can't see the difference between a double standard, and a fine line.</i><br /><br />What I see is that you rudely attacked someone for calling woman a "girl", even though you yourself have done <i>exactly</i> that on your own blog countless times.<br /><br />That's a double standard, and your lack of shame over it even after it's exposure is simply astounding.Rachelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-25528973744553846882011-01-12T17:29:58.083+02:002011-01-12T17:29:58.083+02:00pp: Joe is a married man, "Rachel". And...pp: <i>Joe is a married man, "Rachel". And therefore while he can ponder all he likes, he is not really in a genuine position to cast any judgment on the actions of this woman. Other commenters pointed that out in droves. And I mentioned in an earlier comment that while he may not have meant to come across as judgmental, he did</i><br /><br />Where in his post did he say anything judgmental about the woman? Please quote it.Rachelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-20392731881423706492011-01-12T17:12:26.466+02:002011-01-12T17:12:26.466+02:00Joe is a married man, "Rachel". And ther...Joe is a married man, "Rachel". And therefore while he can ponder all he likes, he is not really in a genuine position to cast any judgment on the actions of this woman. Other commenters pointed that out in droves. And I mentioned in an earlier comment that while he may not have meant to come across as judgmental, he did, and the way he responded to the criticisms from a whole bunch of women (including, but not exclusively, me) proved to what extent he doesn't understand. <br /><br />Sad that you can't see the difference between a double standard, and a fine line. Any thinking <i>woman</i> would appreciate that. But, if it works better for you to make me into the "Bad GIRL" here, knock yourself out.ppnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-55156933550503550782011-01-12T16:51:45.386+02:002011-01-12T16:51:45.386+02:00pp: Rachel- Jenny asked me if I was married and p...pp: <i>Rachel- Jenny asked me if I was married and proceeded to attack me personally. That was the "wtf". Ok?</i><br /><br />pp - you pointed out that Joe was married and proceeded to attack him personally. I hardly see the difference. Just a double standard.Rachelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-17788640014789015182011-01-12T16:36:57.321+02:002011-01-12T16:36:57.321+02:00Rachel- Jenny asked me if I was married and procee...Rachel- Jenny asked me if I was married and proceeded to attack me personally. That was the "wtf". Ok?ppnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-57451919755687750982011-01-12T15:48:07.541+02:002011-01-12T15:48:07.541+02:00pp to Joe: ...this is a very judgmental post, sol...pp to Joe: <i>...this is a very judgmental post, solidified by you referring to her as a "girl". (frum people seem to stop using "girl" only once a woman is married.)</i><br /><br />pp to Jenny: <i>"Jenny", wtf?! Whoever you are, you need to find better things to do with your time than get involved in discussions not directed at you.</i><br /><br />Excuse me??<br /><br />Why does Jenny have any less right than yourself to weigh in on this thread with her opinion? This is an open discussion; why shouldn't she be able to express her opinions even if the discussion wasn't "directed at her"?!<br /><br />JoeSettler's original post wasn't directed at <i>you</i>, yet you had no compunctions about joining the discussion with your own opinions, including a personal attack on Joe. Why are <i>you</i> entitled to do this, but not Jenny? Maybe <i>you</i> "need to find better things to do with your time than get involved in discussions not directed at you".<br /><br />And why are you so angered by Jenny's comment, anyway? Because she disagrees with your attack on Joe regarding his use of the word "girl"? That's awfully hypocritical, coming as it does from someone who has refered to grown women as "girls" <i>dozens</i> of times, on an open blog that everyone can see for themselves.<br /><br />For the record, I found Joe's post to be thoughtful and sensitive. He was <i>extremely</i> tactful and respectful toward the woman in question, and went out of his way to explicitly point out out that he hadn't even the slightest bit of criticism against her. He then then proceeded to present a cogent, considerate analysis of the predicament that this woman finds herself in, suggesting that it results from a widespread fear of commitment on the part of men in the current Jewish singles scene.<br /><br />For the record, I completely agree with Joe's analysis. Your attack on him is unjustified, and not borne out in any way by the content of his post.<br /><br />And I think that Jenny is 100% right when she criticizes you for your obsessive, over-the-top attacks, that twisted a sensible discussion of a critical social issue in today's Jewish community, into an irrational series of ad hominem attacks against the post's author.Rachelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-85678154863716940182011-01-12T10:56:46.683+02:002011-01-12T10:56:46.683+02:00"Jenny", wtf?! Whoever you are, you need..."Jenny", wtf?! Whoever you are, you need to find better things to do with your time than get involved in discussions not directed at you. <br /><br />Joe- this last comment by Rivka sums up the mess you've made here just perfectly. I'd hope that you and Jameel would both take stock of your audience for future posts from now on, but sadly I know better than that.ppnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-17259423479968791342011-01-11T19:30:39.588+02:002011-01-11T19:30:39.588+02:00Guess what, Joe? If this woman *was* going to rep...Guess what, Joe? If this woman *was* going to reply to your request to answer a few questions about the ad, after the INCREDIBLE amounts of sympathy and understanding you've shown here to women like her, I'm sure there's no way in hell she'll come anywhere near this blog. Kol Hakavod!Rivkanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-35141312389934722522011-01-11T17:41:26.803+02:002011-01-11T17:41:26.803+02:00Well that's a shame, because it's a good q...Well that's a shame, because it's a good question, and it's the kind of subject I wanted this comment section to talk about in the first place.JoeSettlernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-1008519435996261672011-01-11T17:30:40.140+02:002011-01-11T17:30:40.140+02:00oh all of you just give up you've killed the t...oh all of you just give up you've killed the thread already.<br /><br />I would have liked to ask about what outreach there is for women in this situation (yearning to have a child) in contrast to blanket announcements such as the one by Rav Lior the other week. But don't bother to reply I'm not reading anymore and most anyone who has what to say isn't either.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-17282606231426248672011-01-11T16:02:04.906+02:002011-01-11T16:02:04.906+02:00Abbi:
Since you have explained to us that calling...Abbi:<br /><br />Since you have explained to us that calling women "girls" is offensive when it is in the context of "discussing dating and marriage", it is very instructive to look at the following quotes from yourself, from <a href="http://muqata.blogspot.com/2008/09/live-blogging-srugim-12.html" rel="nofollow">a post on this very blog</a> in which you describe the plot of an episode of <i>Srugim</i> -- which is <i>completely</i> about "dating and marriage":<br /><br /><i>"At dinner the <b>girls</b> inform Nati that he was ambushed by the rich <b>girl</b>..."</i><br /><br /><i>"Nati is anxious to make havdala because he wants to call Nitzan, the rich <b>girl</b>..."</i><br /><br />Perhaps you've got some sort of hairspitting explanation for us about why <i>your</i> references to women as "girls" -- this time <i>in</i> the context of dating or marriage -- is somehow not offensive, while JoeSettlers' are?Free Thinkernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-90770250914206012332011-01-11T15:30:47.283+02:002011-01-11T15:30:47.283+02:00Hey, Abbi -- give it up already, you've been o...Hey, Abbi -- give it up already, you've been owned.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-35051090508746093592011-01-11T15:28:06.556+02:002011-01-11T15:28:06.556+02:00Oh, and one more thing: Since you yourself have n...Oh, and one more thing: Since you yourself have now clarified that referring to women as "girls" <i>is</i> offensive in the context of "discussing dating and marriage" (as opposed to women in the workplace), can we all assume that you therefore take offense at these quotes from Purple Parrot that appeared in JoeSettler's "inane blog reference list", and refer to women as "girls" specifically in the context of dating or marriage? E.g.:<br /><br /><i>...one of those killed was a girl who was handing out her Wedding Invitations to her friends at the time.</i><br /><br /><i>OK. So I was talking to my mother on the phone. She was very excited: "I've got some WONDERFUL news for you, darling! X is also having twins!"<br />Now, I don’t know X well: Our parents are friends. She's always seemed like a very nice girl.</i><br /><br /><i>It felt not unlike an old SATC episode- the one where Carrie has all the girls over for out-of-the-window viewing</i>Free Thinkernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-54166954034730007602011-01-11T15:26:31.068+02:002011-01-11T15:26:31.068+02:00Aha, I see now: So according to Abbi, referring t...Aha, I see now: So according to Abbi, referring to women as "girls" is offensive <i>only</i> in the context of "discussing dating and marriage", but in the context of discussing adult women in the workplace, it is perfectly fine to call them "girls".<br /><br />No doubt all the PC feminist groups will back you up on that piece of bizarre, inane hairsplitting. Not.<br /><br />Your attempt to go on attacking JoeSettler, even after your complete hypocrisy has been exposed for all to see, is pathetic beyond words. I don't know which is more pitiable: Your desperate and ridiculous efforts to insist that your own use of the term is somehow different and therefore not offensive, or your transparent attempt to divert attention by attacking JoeSettler for having "had the time" to search your blog.<br /><br />Get a clue: You've got so much egg on your face now, that there's a puddle forming around you. Fact: You yourself call your female coworkers "girls", yet you sanctimoniously assail somebody else for using the exact same term.<br /><br />Most people, after being shown up as such a completely two-faced hypocrite, would either apologize contritely, or slink off quietly into the woodwork. But not you.<br /><br />Talk about "social ineptitude". Sheesh.Free Thinkernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-86586936226048341302011-01-11T15:13:20.386+02:002011-01-11T15:13:20.386+02:00Dear Joe,
Since you are clearly too dense to unde...Dear Joe,<br /><br />Since you are clearly too dense to understand your complete lack of manners, I will spell out for you when you may or may not use 'girl'.<br /><br />A woman may only be called a girl under any of the following circumstances:<br /><br />1. She is a fellow coworker.<br />2. She is married.<br />3. She is engaged.<br />4. She is a mother.<br />5. She is under 12 (possibly 21).<br />6. You are referring to yourself.<br />7. She is a fellow commenter.<br />8. She is a friend.<br />9. She is a stranger.<br />10. She is your daughter.<br />11. She has a professional career.<br /><br />You may never refer to a woman as a girl under any of the following circumstances:<br /><br />1. Your name is JoeSettler.<br />2. You are referring to a single woman, age 40 and the discussion is about dating.<br /><br />Any use of girl breaching this list of rules proves you are a misogynistic, socially inept, insensitive schmuck - but at least not a hypocrite.RulesWomannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-1871001377878833052011-01-11T12:55:20.582+02:002011-01-11T12:55:20.582+02:00Free thinker- I think it's been explained in a...Free thinker- I think it's been explained in about a dozen ways in this thread why referring to older single women as girls in the context of discussing dating and marriage is offensive. If at this point it's too hard for you and Joe to understand why it's offensive, than there's really nothing more to explain or discuss and yes, this complete lack of understanding reflects a rather large degree of social ineptitude ie: the inability to show simple sensitivity to another person's feelings otherwise known as "manners" or "politeness". <br /><br />I'm astounded that you have to time to actually search my blog for the word "girl". You probably had to read a lot of posts to get just the right example since I talk about my two young daughters quite a bit. I wish you a lot of luck in your job search or in any kind of search for a more worthy use of your time. Since this "accusation" is so completely worthless (as was Joe's inane blog reference list), sorry, I'm not even going to dignify it with a response.Commenter Abbihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07753256568022159103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-27143585877187351492011-01-11T09:00:27.630+02:002011-01-11T09:00:27.630+02:00Oh and Renegade why do you have to attack Sara wha...Oh and Renegade why do you have to attack Sara what's the point? She never said who has it "harder" just that looking at a single person's life as if they have <i>no</i> responsibilities is downright wrong. And sometimes yes having a life partner does smooth out the logistics of maintaining a home - like when my tall husband changes the lightbulbs, or when I apply my analytical personality to rearranging the fridge, or when only one of us has to be home for the repairman, or when rent or auto expenses are shared between two salaries...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-91293657670075439192011-01-11T08:56:20.101+02:002011-01-11T08:56:20.101+02:00This overdone meta-discussion is great proof of ho...This overdone meta-discussion is great proof of how technological communication is easily misunderstood - people are taking offense in many ways that weren't intended.<br /><br />Someone makes a polite request to reconsider use of the word girl - Joe thinks he's being attacked for PC usage.<br /><br />Joe doesn't take these "girl" corrections - polite or emphatic - very seriously but instead focuses on comments about the original topic - those who wrote them think he's intentionally snubbing them.<br /><br />Someone makes the point that sometimes people can refer to themselves in ways that outsiders can't - again people are up in arms about PC.<br /><br />Someone says they're sad that someone gets to 40 and because she couldn't start a familiy the traditional way.... - someone calls him a MISOGYNIST!<br /><br />If we were sitting in the lunchroom, it would be much easier to read others' tone of voice, make a quick comment to clarify, etc. Instead everyone is just stuck in front of their own terminal with their own point of view.<br /><br />That's part of the "dating" problem also - much less people-to-people interaction nowadays. People aren't used to it, and they aren't good at it.<br /><br />Have a good day everyone. Better luck in real life.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com