tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post7010751814153912895..comments2024-03-10T08:13:34.023+02:00Comments on The Muqata: Unfinished Post: R' Yehuda Bar Ila'i (part 1)Jameel @ The Muqatahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15890095633246557332noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-41826580960666991692008-03-05T22:12:00.000+02:002008-03-05T22:12:00.000+02:00Poland's National Remembrance Institute confirmed ...Poland's National Remembrance Institute <A HREF="http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3313120,00.html" REL="nofollow">confirmed that Nazis made soap from human bodies</A> in a study that came out about a year and a half ago.mojobetahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13410170920755489168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-38239584543955375872008-03-03T04:12:00.000+02:002008-03-03T04:12:00.000+02:00Thanks LionThanks LionAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-60901097539849800022008-03-02T09:20:00.000+02:002008-03-02T09:20:00.000+02:00Pinchas Giller:"the kever of R. Yehudah bar Ilai u...Pinchas Giller:<BR/><BR/>"the kever of R. Yehudah bar Ilai used to be much smaller"<BR/><BR/>there is a picture in vilnaiLion of Zionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10342299133387602141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-59135475047495718102008-03-01T01:55:00.000+02:002008-03-01T01:55:00.000+02:00I also think that the soap wasburied very early in...I also think that the soap wasburied very early in the history of the state, before there were official mosodt to address that sort of thing.<BR/><BR/>the kever of R. Yehudah bar Ilai used to be much smaller & rather like the old kever Rachel in design. I believe it was R. Mordechai Sliahu expanded it into this rather more unsightly building...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-74433312846618486412008-03-01T01:52:00.000+02:002008-03-01T01:52:00.000+02:00Hello. The AR"I's involvement in gravesites is fro...Hello. The AR"I's involvement in gravesites is from his lifetime, and addressed in Sha'ar ha-Gilgullim. Many Galilee gravesites predate the AR"I and even the circulation of the Zohar- Hillel & Shammai, RasHB"Y & r.Eliezer, Benyahu ben Yehoyada'. A perusal of Vilnay is worth a thousand blogs...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-16736447331047689292008-02-29T23:56:00.000+02:002008-02-29T23:56:00.000+02:00MISS FRED:"It's about people saying things they've...MISS FRED:<BR/><BR/>"It's about people saying things they've heard, or they were told, or what they thought."<BR/><BR/>what is the earliest evidence of the ari's involvement in grave identification?Lion of Zionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10342299133387602141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-7244364477112322092008-02-29T15:08:00.000+02:002008-02-29T15:08:00.000+02:00Another sign needs to be posted at the location (p...Another sign needs to be posted at the location (perhaps by Yad Vashem?) pointing out that the Jews who erected the first sign had been told by Nazis that the soap that they had contained remains from Jews, and thought that what they were doing was the appropriate honorable thing to do for Jewish remains, but that in fact there is no evidence that soap was ever made from Jewish remains and was likely not true.<BR/><BR/>No one should leave that site as the blogger did, thinking that the Nazi-perpetrated fraud was true.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-59057889284602461882008-02-29T14:49:00.000+02:002008-02-29T14:49:00.000+02:00Ben Yisroel: People make a pilgrimage to these si...Ben Yisroel: <I>People make a pilgrimage to these sites to... pray for the soul of the holy person to intercede on their behalf.</I><BR/><BR/>According to many (including the Rambam), that's idolatry right there.Lurkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05516196101946513020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-39067493906473800162008-02-29T09:56:00.000+02:002008-02-29T09:56:00.000+02:00Anonyous: This assumes that it was infact "RIF" so...Anonyous: <I>This assumes that it was infact "RIF" soap, and not some other soap which they just called "RIF" because "RIF" meant, "human fat" in thier lexicon.</I><BR/><BR/>You are 100% correct, and this was the first thing that occured to me as well. I will try to find out via Yad Vashem if they have any more knowledge about this, or perhaps via people in Tzfat.<BR/><BR/>Nat: Fat drained ouf of the cremetoria would still have trace DNA (as far as I know...but we can easily ask the experts)<BR/><BR/>I hope to post more on this next week. Glad you enjoyed reading it!Jameel @ The Muqatahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15890095633246557332noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-85652317352928697632008-02-29T06:29:00.000+02:002008-02-29T06:29:00.000+02:00Wow! Posting a link on my blog!Wow! Posting a link on my blog!Neil Harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12797772082427806345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-28180571949576400722008-02-29T06:18:00.000+02:002008-02-29T06:18:00.000+02:00May I humbly inquire as to the importance of the a...May I humbly inquire as to the importance of the accurate identity of the former possessor of the pile of bones in a cave?<BR/><BR/>People make a pilgrimage to these sites to pour their hearts to G-d and pray for the soul of the holy person to intercede on their behalf.<BR/><BR/>I posit that their heartfelt prayers are as powerful if the cave’s occupant was the town’s chimney sweep or the resh galusa.<BR/><BR/>To believe that the Ari Zal had the ability to determine the identity of these cave’s occupants is heresy and a slippery slope indeed. If we’re not careful, people will be wrapping red string around grave markers and claiming the string has magical powers.<BR/>Our forefather Avram spent his life abolishing idol worship. <BR/><BR/>Seems some of us yearn for its returnAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-76203190196894574562008-02-29T04:51:00.000+02:002008-02-29T04:51:00.000+02:00Michael Shermer, skeptic extraordinaire, wrote a ...Michael Shermer, skeptic extraordinaire, wrote a book about holocaust denial and has debated deniers in the past. He claims that there is no evidence that the Nazis manufactured soap or lampshades from bodies and has found deniers often use this to falsify other claims of regarding the shoah.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-91253577090089896502008-02-29T02:40:00.000+02:002008-02-29T02:40:00.000+02:00Excellent, excellent post. My friends, its not abo...Excellent, excellent post. My friends, its not about people <I>lying</I>. It's about people saying things they've <I>heard</I>, or they were <I>told</I>, or what they <I>thought</I>. There isn't a shred of dishonesty, or anything unusual in this. These things happen all the time. On the other hand, it "could" be true. The thing is, there's no reliable evidence that it is, and that's all.Mississippi Fred MacDowellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02734864605700159687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-5520746927431546002008-02-29T00:18:00.000+02:002008-02-29T00:18:00.000+02:00I understand that the soap was made from fat that ...I understand that the soap was made from fat that drained out of the crematoria. That might explain why no human DNA was found.natschusterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13127240463824366637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-44685858851247047652008-02-28T23:49:00.000+02:002008-02-28T23:49:00.000+02:00A Simple Jew: I used Googles's translator tool to...A Simple Jew: <I>I used Googles's translator tool to translate from Russian to English and <A HREF="http://tinyurl.com/2h58qd" REL="nofollow">here</A> you can see the reference to "a piece of soap from human fat" in Kiev's Museum of the Great Patriotic War.</I><BR/><BR/>I followed your link, but I couldn't find any reference to soap there.Lurkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05516196101946513020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-56033675364346179062008-02-28T23:35:00.000+02:002008-02-28T23:35:00.000+02:00Really good post - not just about R' Y. Luria's re...Really good post - not just about R' Y. Luria's reliability and influence and about the Nazis' atrocities, which might all be known, but that you can't buy anything and still shouldn't learn from it that you can't believe anything at all.Phillip Mindenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16801818752833289089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-9671859099529008292008-02-28T23:33:00.000+02:002008-02-28T23:33:00.000+02:00"One of the sefarim I was told about in my search ..."One of the sefarim I was told about in my search for this information specifically stated that the soap buried was "RIF" soap. If you read the Nizkor article that I hyperlinked to in my post, you'll see that RIF soap was DNA tested and did not have any human DNA found in it. I suggest you read the links I provided...<BR/>"<BR/><BR/>This assumes that it was infact "RIF" soap, and not some other soap which they just called "RIF" because "RIF" meant, "human fat" in thier lexicon.<BR/><BR/>Not all Xerox machines are made by Xerox.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-80944000321411240222008-02-28T23:20:00.000+02:002008-02-28T23:20:00.000+02:00Jameel - I don't understand the cohein comments. ...Jameel - I don't understand the cohein comments. My understanding is that the grave sites of tzaddikim to not carry tumas hames, and therefore can be visited by cohanim. Though there are some authorities who forbid this, I thought this was common practice.<BR/><BR/>I know this is the practice among chassidim, and have seen cohanim being boxed to pass through a cemetery to the kever of a tzadik within.<BR/><BR/>Most of these sites being separate from a cemetery makes them uniquely suited to be visited by cohanim. (As opposed to the ancient cemetery of Tzfat, through which one practically cannot travel without stepping on graves, for which they built a path which certainly sits on top of graves.)Akivahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13042484533217272945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-50358906932474981792008-02-28T22:35:00.000+02:002008-02-28T22:35:00.000+02:00About lampshades primarily, slight bit on soap at ...About lampshades primarily, slight bit on soap at the end:<BR/><BR/>http://www.straightdope.com/columns/040604.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-27642189480309770642008-02-28T22:29:00.000+02:002008-02-28T22:29:00.000+02:00This is a great post.Yaakov and Yitz's comments b...This is a great post.<BR/><BR/>Yaakov and Yitz's comments both share something and that is that by questioning certain accounts, we are somehow accusing them of have ulterior motives and being liars. This is so off, and typical of charedi ideology. Nobody ever accuses people that believe in these tails to having ulterior motives. What can it possibly be? What can they possibly get if they DID have ulterior motives? Perhaps the Ari got some right, perhaps he was way off. There is no chiuv on anyone to believe in these stories. This goes once again to the question of the infallibility of gedolim. That just because many have followed his kabbalistic teachings, automatically makes him 100% qualified to identify all graves.Holy Hyraxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17704030181702087485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-90164672531613966802008-02-28T21:44:00.000+02:002008-02-28T21:44:00.000+02:00Yaakov: Its not an issue of lack of trust in the A...Yaakov: Its not an issue of lack of trust in the Arizal -- its a matter of practicality.<BR/><BR/>Did you know that while the Ari did identify many places, he ALSO sent Kohanim to the same places as well! There are halachik discussions on the subject of kabbalistically identified burial sites even have tuma...Jameel @ The Muqatahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15890095633246557332noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-64678318577230765012008-02-28T21:30:00.000+02:002008-02-28T21:30:00.000+02:00Wow. I'll be interested to see what else you come ...Wow. I'll be interested to see what else you come up with.<BR/><BR/>The striking part of this story, for me, is the image of some poor evacuee, leaving the camps and heading for Eretz Israel, who thinks to stop and gather up what he believes are remains of his fellow Jews, to grant them not just a decent burial, but a postmortem pilgrimage to the land.<BR/><BR/>What a powerful redemptive moment that burial must have been for him (I say him, but of course it may have been a woman). <BR/><BR/>Thanks for the background on bar Ilai, Lurker. That site makes lots of sense in that context.Tzipporahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08807511259582331073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-37232800898131500262008-02-28T20:19:00.000+02:002008-02-28T20:19:00.000+02:00YAAKOV:please point out for me exactly where jamee...YAAKOV:<BR/><BR/>please point out for me exactly where jameel writes that he himself does not accept the authority of the ari in identifying graves. looking for earlier evidence doesn't mean he rejects the ari.<BR/><BR/>that having been said, maybe jameel does reject the ari in this and in other matters. (i don't know either way.) what is your problem with this? please don't exaggerate his role as an "authority." yes, his influence has been tremendous, but at no time did everyone accept all of the practices and thought found in torat ha-ari. not in his own time, not in succeeding generations and not today.Lion of Zionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10342299133387602141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-50552756311649915942008-02-28T19:47:00.000+02:002008-02-28T19:47:00.000+02:00I have serious Issue with your lack of trust in th...I have serious Issue with your lack of trust in the ARIZAL whom has been the authority in Sodos Hatorah for the past 400 years. What you think he made up whos buried where? As if he had nothing better to do?Ask yourself honestly why do you have a problem trusting a tzaddik whos torah and Kedusha has been followed for the past 400 years by our leaders?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-19317942018055607122008-02-28T19:31:00.000+02:002008-02-28T19:31:00.000+02:00Your post hit me like a ton of bricks. It is a rem...Your post hit me like a ton of bricks. It is a reminder that we cannot wrap our minds around what happened.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for bringing this up.mevaseretzionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118487743478084355noreply@blogger.com