tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post817176990253888058..comments2024-03-27T07:01:13.725+02:00Comments on The Muqata: Intel, Jerusalem, and Shabbat RiotsJameel @ The Muqatahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15890095633246557332noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-48642968400313501212009-11-17T10:30:35.404+02:002009-11-17T10:30:35.404+02:00Well I for one am appalled at the cynicism on this...Well I for one am appalled at the cynicism on this blog. How anyone could fail to be <i>mitchazek</i> in their <i>Yahadus</i> after seeing people dressed in their Polish finery shouting <i>shabbesshabbes</i>, pushing photographers and tipping over plant pots is beyond me! How can you just refuse to see the <i>kiddush Hashem</i> or appreciate the beauty of TorahTrue living here? <br /><br />Probably you're all a bunch of <i>koifrim</i>, or worse! Modernists (<i>chas v'shalom</i>)! <br />I'd bet some of you probably even work in place of using the Torah as a spade to live with (<i>Hashem yirachem</i>)!<br /><br />Yellow BoyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-77450914904352662002009-11-17T10:25:12.217+02:002009-11-17T10:25:12.217+02:00Abe Frohman was also the name of the "Sausage...Abe Frohman was also the name of the "Sausage King of Chicago", according to the fine documentary "Ferris Bueller's Day Off" (Wikipedia has a different spelling of Frohman).yoni r.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-85034572854360432002009-11-17T06:50:59.614+02:002009-11-17T06:50:59.614+02:00Just look at the Peace Fanatics violently rioting ...Just look at the Peace Fanatics violently rioting every Friday near Modiin. <br /><br />Should we classify them as terrorists or religious nuts?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-25225553097938465652009-11-17T00:44:17.730+02:002009-11-17T00:44:17.730+02:00" Yup, asked a rabbi a hypothetical using the..." Yup, asked a rabbi a hypothetical using the scenario from the protests and he didn't even hesitate before he said "Ossur." "<br /><br /><br />Ummmmm They dont care what YOUR Rabbi Paskins. They have THEIR Rabbi who says its Mutar. Now I would bet their Rabbi is a bit more of a talmid chacham than your Rabbi. And, even if he is not, does it matter? Why are they forced to listen to YOUR rabbi?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-21643219044228495742009-11-16T23:49:19.434+02:002009-11-16T23:49:19.434+02:00So may I assume that the rioters are ab initio act...So may I assume that the rioters are ab initio actually employable by Intel? That, more than anything else, would contribute to their outrage. Because after all, do they really care if heathens (ie, non-observant Jews, labor voters, members of Reform congregations, Christians, Druze, and Muslims) were to work on shabbes? <br /><br /><b>I've been happier over the years with my AMD units anyway and now I know not to buy another Intel as I do not want to contribute to chilul Shabbos in Y-m. </b><br /><br />Sounds surprisingly similar to the boycott movement statements about not buying Israeli. <br /><br /><b>I understand that the main demonstration was in the morning after davening.</b><br /><br />How VERY Muslim. First go to masjid and listen to the imam preaching hate. Then spend the rest of the day rioting through the Hindu and Animist portions of the settlement, burning stores and attacking the police.... oh wait, that's a different time and a different place. Sorry. My bad.<br /><br />Look, Shabbes is what YOU make of it. What other people do is strictly their own lookout.<br /><br />The Sfas Emes, citing his heilige grandfather the Chiddushei HaRim, interprets psook 16:18 in Dvarim (parshas Shoftim) – "Shoftim ve shotrim titeinu-lecha, be chol sheariteicha, asher HaShem notein lach" ('Judges and officers shall you appoint, in all the gateways (cities') which Hashem has given you), as a command to guard the gates to our awareness and monitor our senses, so that we do not see what we should not see, nor hear what we should not hear.<br /><br />We have the ability and the intelligence to look the other way, as we standardly do when confronted with immodesty or something embarrassing.<br /><br />By the same token people should mind their own business - so as not to engage in lashon hara, nor be led astray by the example of others.The back of the hillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05564245223453467132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-86711218123821774052009-11-16T17:54:42.108+02:002009-11-16T17:54:42.108+02:00I understand that the main demonstration was in th...I understand that the main demonstration was in the morning after davening. Thousands came to read tehillim and other peaceful acts and then went home to eat shabbat lunch.<br />That a few hundred stayed and made trouble is a sign that you are believing the media account of the day.joshnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-18103607004259314272009-11-16T17:41:47.571+02:002009-11-16T17:41:47.571+02:00You wrote: "Israel managed to work out a solu...You wrote: "Israel managed to work out a solution with the Chareidi population over the Jerusalem parking lot riots a few weeks ago ..."<br /><br />What was this solution?<br /><br />Incidentally to those saying they will boycott Intel, did you consider that your boycott, which is not halachiaclly required, could drive the company out of Israel.HAGTBGnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-43662062825439535662009-11-16T12:35:29.317+02:002009-11-16T12:35:29.317+02:00Shelly Yechemovitch (Labor Party) is upset that Ch...Shelly Yechemovitch (Labor Party) is <a href="http://rotter.net/cgi-bin/go-news.pl?file=13582.html" rel="nofollow">upset</a> that Chilonim are not protesting side by side with the Chareidim against Intel.<br /><br />Shelly wonders if this is the state of hi-tech, how long before it trickles down to the rest of Israeli society?<br /><br />Shelly believes that if the Shabbat laws are not upheld, the weakest sector will be suffer as they will be forced to work in the stores and malls on Shabbat, while the owners go off to play sports.<br /><br />(hattip: Jameel)JoeSettlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01232647820807408898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-310026515584698962009-11-16T11:27:47.114+02:002009-11-16T11:27:47.114+02:009:28 has the right idea. Protest by taking your bu...9:28 has the right idea. Protest by taking your business elsewhere and letting Intel know why. This is how adults act. Kicking and screaming like unruly children is a) not as effective b) disgraceful behavior for g-d fearing people. <br /><br />I'm very intrigued by those angered by all things religious in Israel. Why else would you go/stay there if not for its Jewish identity? There are so many easier, more peaceful places to live. Please enlighten me.Elliot Lazarushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04184605157577484313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-78875912152503744012009-11-16T11:22:28.731+02:002009-11-16T11:22:28.731+02:00Jerusalem has plenty of bars, restaurants and cafe...Jerusalem has plenty of bars, restaurants and cafes open over Shabbat... it isn't Tel Aviv, but anyone who believes that the city somehow is a paradigm of Sabbath Sanctification lives in a dream world.<br /><br />The tragedy to my mind is that the Charedi community don't seem to want to come out of their dream world.tafka ppnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-69457660293010633592009-11-16T10:13:35.429+02:002009-11-16T10:13:35.429+02:00Jerusalem desperately needs jobs.
So creating job...<b>Jerusalem desperately needs jobs.</b><br /><br />So creating jobs that the weakest sector can't partake in (but would be very good at) makes a lot of sense.<br /><br />Job discrimination against someone who is religious (because Intel would rather hire some who will work on Shabbat) is still illegal in the State of Israel.<br /><br />And the pressure it would create for someone who needs the job but would otherwise not work on Shabbos (such as what happened in Kiryat Gat) is a Chillul Hashem.Intel Outsidenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-19063579880810368222009-11-16T09:54:57.411+02:002009-11-16T09:54:57.411+02:00Intel outside: We are not living in halachic state...Intel outside: We are not living in halachic state that is legislated by Torah. No on is forcing YOU or any other religious Jews to work on Shabbat.<br /><br />The shabbat laws that are in place are there to "maintain the Jewish character of the state". They are not meant to force people to observe shabbat.<br /><br />The fact is, nearly every city in Israel has businesses that are open on Shabbat. Ranaana has cafes and pharmacies open on the edges of town and in the mall open and everything in town is closed. I don't believe many religious people in Ranaana are starving because they can't find work because they won't work on Shabbat.<br /><br />Rabin made the right decision to allow Intel to work on Shabbat and bring jobs to a very depressed periphery town. I know more than a handful of religious Jews who were trained and employed by Intel in KG, so the "religious Jews getting rejected" logic is a red herring.<br /><br />Jerusalem desperately needs jobs. These protests are horrible and they should all be arrested and put in jail for a while.Commenter Abbihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07753256568022159103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-80322461819669526012009-11-16T08:37:31.456+02:002009-11-16T08:37:31.456+02:00I was asked (in Jerusalem) if I was prepared to wo...I was asked (in Jerusalem) if I was prepared to worked on Shabbos!<br /><br />I answered, only in a clear case of Pikuach Nefesh.<br /><br />But what kind of Pikuach Nefesh could there possibly in my field - much less any need at all to work on Shabbos in my field?<br /><br />I am sure it was illegal for them to ask me that question, but they saw no problem with it.<br /><br />It certainly made me very uncomfortable.S.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-32406911562832303722009-11-16T08:15:10.635+02:002009-11-16T08:15:10.635+02:00Zayin: Intel made it extremely uncomfortable for m...Zayin: Intel made it extremely uncomfortable for me to work there if I wasn't willing to work on Shabbat.<br /><br />I eventually quit because they made my life so miserable.Erwinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-46499366263689959392009-11-16T07:26:05.401+02:002009-11-16T07:26:05.401+02:00No one is forcing workers to work on Shabbos. I do...<i>No one is forcing workers to work on Shabbos. I doubt Intel would fire anyone for refusing to do so.</i><br /><br />Or not hire them in the first place?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-72635384583790397952009-11-16T00:01:35.812+02:002009-11-16T00:01:35.812+02:00All these haredim are an embarrassment to Jews all...All these haredim are an embarrassment to Jews all over the world. Their conduct over the past several years has been deplorable and completely against the traditions of Judaism. If Intel's work does not interfere with their lives, let them be! Everyone should be responsible for themselves in fulfilling their religious duties. No one is forcing workers to work on Shabbos. I doubt Intel would fire anyone for refusing to do so. These protesters just need a cause to fight about, and this is a convenient reason. I am sorry if I am not making sense, but it is acts like this that make me tell my non-Jewish friends that I feel more comfortable in the Arab neighborhoods of East Jerusalem than in Mea Sharim.Sethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17372220827039035848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-73126387510829549202009-11-15T23:57:43.023+02:002009-11-15T23:57:43.023+02:00Is $1.83 Billion docheh Shabbat?Is $1.83 Billion docheh Shabbat?Intel Outsidenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-13997886730233847262009-11-15T23:15:25.944+02:002009-11-15T23:15:25.944+02:00Sol: I believe that information is patently false ...Sol: I believe that information is patently false -- to the best of my knowledge, the Y-Lem office never worked from a production perspective on Shabbat, and was only open with the minimal safety and security personnel ensuring that nothing got out of hand.<br /><br />Anonymous/Proud Chareidi: Its a sfek-sfeika.<br /><br />The next computer chip you want to buy is not definitely made in Israel...and even if it were, there's no guarantee that there was chilul shabbat in the making of that particular chip.<br /><br />I think you severely underestimate the financial power of Intel -- its exports from Israeli are 1.83 Billion dollars a year. I think you'll be hard pressed to find a "private religious entrepreneur" willing to take on such a project (and Intel would never lease out their plants, due to confidentiality)Jameelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-28741454014826141692009-11-15T21:28:32.268+02:002009-11-15T21:28:32.268+02:00Thanks for this. I do not support rioting by any m...Thanks for this. I do not support rioting by any means, but I am one proud Charedi who will make sure his next computer has an AMD or other non-Intel chip.<br /><br />I've been happier over the years with my AMD units anyway and now I know not to buy another Intel as I do not want to contribute to chilul Shabbos in Y-m.<br /><br />What is more, I'll bet there is a private religious entrepreneur in EY or abroad who could lease both the Y-m and KG facilities from Intel or operate them on a net lease for Intel as a subcontractor and do more and better work than Intel does in both places now, with no chilul Shabbos at all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-12457132701300377312009-11-15T20:56:54.490+02:002009-11-15T20:56:54.490+02:00From what i read in another news report, Intel has...From what i read in another news report, Intel has had the yerushalayim offices open on shabbat for quite some time. It is just that they added a new facility with additional jobs that brings this to the forefront.Solnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-28921507812791722732009-11-15T20:41:20.555+02:002009-11-15T20:41:20.555+02:00Let's leave aside for a moment the Intel probl...Let's leave aside for a moment the Intel problem with opening their facility on Shabbos. From what I can gather the chareidim who so actively protested ON SHABBOS were themselves guilty of being m'chalel Shabbos. Yup, asked a rabbi a hypothetical using the scenario from the protests and he didn't even hesitate before he said "Ossur." <br /><br />So, the chareidim are being m'chalel Shabbos to protest Intel's being m'chalel Shabbos? Any one see a problem here? Two wrongs aren't going to make a right.ProfKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17954446826821665314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-75126814525591625482009-11-15T20:17:53.267+02:002009-11-15T20:17:53.267+02:00what are you talking about?what are you talking about?Garynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-66517545039659926102009-11-15T20:17:22.276+02:002009-11-15T20:17:22.276+02:00Whatever people do in private is between them and ...Whatever people do in private is between them and G-d. But the public character of Shabbat must be honored in the Jewish State. Profits must take a back seat to showing respect for G-d and His Torah.NormanFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03365459073293643108noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-38260647604695961962009-11-15T16:37:53.735+02:002009-11-15T16:37:53.735+02:00It burns me up that a bunch of Chareidi hooligans ...It burns me up that a bunch of Chareidi hooligans can find the heter to protest at Intel Har Hotzvim (instead of being with their families for Shabbat lunch) and to smash car windows, facility doors, etc. I’d rather that Intel didn’t work on Shabbat but this vigilante group is not going to be mikarev the management.<br /> <br />I have a suggestion for Intel management that will put an end to it. It will cost a few shekels but small change compared to the security costs that the present situation entails. Intel should take out full page ads in both the Chareidi and secular press. If the Chareidi papers refuse to run the ads so much the better. The secular press will pick up on it as a news story and all but run the ads for free.<br /> <br />In these ads Intel should say that they are interested in shalom bayit with the Chareidi community and they appreciate their concern for being willing to give up their Shabbat to come work as security guards protecting the Intel plant. Intel wants to pay every one of their new “security consultants” who came out this past week. Accordingly they have gathered all the news footage/film available in order to identify their new “employees” and to compensate them appropriately for their “work”.<br /> <br />Intel should open a separate bank account and deposit into said account two hours (minimum) wage + social benefits times the number of people that were present. The advertisement should ask everyone who was present to submit a photograph of themselves + identifying details (e.g. teudat zehut, bank account #) so that they can be paid. The photos can be compared to the film and for every face matched payment can be released from the escrow account.<br /> <br />You will now have all the demonstrators with the chashash (taint) of “working” (rachmana litzlan) on Shabbat (shomu shamayim).<br /> <br />Any money not claimed should, after a reasonable time period (six months?), be donated to the Eida Chareidis. Let’s see if they turn it down…Gee a Moronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00049652650047347640noreply@blogger.com