tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post4131724034625424042..comments2024-03-27T07:01:13.725+02:00Comments on The Muqata: What do the Palestinians want?Jameel @ The Muqatahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15890095633246557332noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-84376755892035415662011-05-21T00:43:34.044+03:002011-05-21T00:43:34.044+03:00The final question, about the Clinton proposed agr...The final question, about the Clinton proposed agreement, present this agreement as a simple yes/no to peace. But the reality was much more complicated. The question is 'what exactly had been offered to the Arafat?' and there's an argument about the offers. Certainly, if Arafat was there to represent the Palestinians, why they would think different? If Ehud Barack was the opposer, would there be majority of Israelis who would think otherwise?<br /><br />More, detailed information about the complicated story of Camp-David 2000 peace process can be read here http://www.mideastweb.org/lastmaps.htm<br />or in wikipedia (look for camp david accords 2000, or just israel-palestine peace process)goodoldbookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14603172791134444081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-52976198416626767702010-11-23T07:26:55.545+02:002010-11-23T07:26:55.545+02:00This poll result is as enlightening as a study con...This poll result is as enlightening as a study concluding that water is wet.Jewish Odysseushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16704379332151214452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-73327589646941025272010-11-22T05:52:43.535+02:002010-11-22T05:52:43.535+02:00Yoni made an important point: No Palestinian is go...Yoni made an important point: No Palestinian is going to ever defame Arafat, even beyond the grave, for his decision to not be bulldozed by Clinton (sic). <br /><br />Within Palestinian culture, declaring loyalty and outwardly remaining faithful to one's leader and the resistance is paramount. (Hamas would support the fact that he didn't take that decision on their behalf for different reasons.) <br /><br />Re this survey- anyone (we evil leftists included) who interacts with Palestinians will not raise an eyebrow, there's nothing new here. BUT even with the details provided on the TIP site, we don't know enough about the survey- eg what language it was carried out in, male/female rations, and crucially if the respondents had any idea that their opinions would be used for a body called "The Israel Project", or, as your commenter Yoni R points out, if they were convinced of confidentiality. <br /><br />However, if the face value you see here is enough for you and your readers to start jumping up and down with glee and proclaiming the need to carpet-bomb Gaza etc... I'm not about to try and stop the slathering.PPhttp://goingslightlymad.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-71337862780522670172010-11-21T16:24:35.386+02:002010-11-21T16:24:35.386+02:00Don't forget Vox InsaniaeDon't forget Vox InsaniaeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-27764139470876102022010-11-21T16:13:48.639+02:002010-11-21T16:13:48.639+02:00The Muqata is also read by people outside our ideo...The Muqata is also read by people outside our ideological circle. <br /><br />We have readers from the NIF, J-Street, and other anti-Zionist organizations regularly visiting.<br /><br />We also have Arab visitors from the PA and other Arab states (they even send us email).JoeSettlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01232647820807408898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-30632758821504972102010-11-21T16:11:40.687+02:002010-11-21T16:11:40.687+02:00Yoni, true, but I was already thinking of that las...Yoni, true, but I was already thinking of that last point as it relates to Sharansky's theory on repressive governments.<br /><br />Your 2-state interpretation was very amusing.JoeSettlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01232647820807408898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-84976675407213206772010-11-21T15:31:24.359+02:002010-11-21T15:31:24.359+02:00Haaretz is often read by people outside of JoeSett...Haaretz is often read by people outside of JoeSettler's ideological circle:<br /><br />http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/poll-most-palestinians-see-two-state-solution-as-precursor-to-single-state-1.325793D.C.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00444398343324530769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-40003678836727830132010-11-21T15:19:32.182+02:002010-11-21T15:19:32.182+02:00All my points are incredibly important.
:)<i>All</i> my points are incredibly important.<br /><br />:)yoni r.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-14405668808736159122010-11-21T14:23:52.240+02:002010-11-21T14:23:52.240+02:00Your last point is incredibly important.
It leave...Your last point is incredibly important.<br /><br />It leaves open 2 possibilities (neither good):<br /><br />1) The majority of Arabs want to see Israel destroyed.<br /><br />or<br /><br />2) The majority of Arabs believe their government (our "peace partner") wants Israel destroyed; and their life is on the line if it becomes known to their government that they disagree.JoeSettlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01232647820807408898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-36536507739149822942010-11-21T13:31:45.582+02:002010-11-21T13:31:45.582+02:00Wait a minute. You seem to be interpreting the que...Wait a minute. You seem to be interpreting the questions a bit too much.<br /><br />Question three is not, "should a 2-state solution be a stepping stone to replacing Israel etc." It is, "should the two States be replaced by one state". What 2 states are being discussed? From a Western media POV, it's obviously Israel and Palestine. From an Arab POV, it may be the West Bank and Gaza, which should live side by side for now (not necessarily bordering; what does the Arabic equivalent of "side by side" mean to the Arab man on the street?), and in the future merge into one state. Why not start with one state if that's the ultimate goal? Non-contiguous land masses, for one.<br /><br />About Israel's existence, the question wasn't one of desire, but expectations. There are many people who think that various things will cease to be, that doesn't mean that they necessarily want that result (there are people whom I love who I do not expect to be around in 25 years, it doesn't mean I want them gone).<br /><br />The last question is unfair. It presented an offer, and then said that Arafat, who, IIUC, is still pretty well respected by the man on the street, rejected this offer. The question changes from, "what do you think of this offer" to, "did Arafat, in your opinion, make a mistake". Not surprising that only about 1 in 4 Palestinians were able to admit that Arafat made a mistake.<br /><br />In no way do I think that the results are incorrect. However, when a poll is taken, the questions themselves are extremely important. This poll tells more about the abilities of the poll-takers to create an objective poll than it does about Palestinians' positions regarding Israel.<br /><br />There's also the question of in a regime such as exists in the West Bank/Gaza, how many people who don't necessarily support the destruction of Israel are willing to go on record as such. Any claims that the results are confidential, etc., would probably be suspect, especially when the respondent could feel that his life is on the line.yoni r.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-43367196687319899882010-11-21T12:35:11.615+02:002010-11-21T12:35:11.615+02:00Even if they are seen outside of my ideological ci...Even if they are seen outside of my ideological circle, do the people seeing it care enough to act on it, or is it in there interest to take it into account?JoeSettlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01232647820807408898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-10270410930624585202010-11-21T11:51:13.810+02:002010-11-21T11:51:13.810+02:00Is there any indication that these polls are being...Is there any indication that these polls are being seen by people outside of your ideological circle?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-37787265849973453372010-11-21T10:04:42.399+02:002010-11-21T10:04:42.399+02:00One word: 'Containment'One word: 'Containment'Ronald Reagannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-68096155310239615262010-11-21T09:57:52.138+02:002010-11-21T09:57:52.138+02:00Irgun Heroes: That is funny.Irgun Heroes: That is funny.JoeSettlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01232647820807408898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-51753550756144057332010-11-21T09:11:38.538+02:002010-11-21T09:11:38.538+02:00"Israel's existence in 25 years" gra..."Israel's existence in 25 years" graph - represents the Arabs' pessimism. Many more arabs desire Israel not to exist than those who think that 25 years will be enough time to get the job done.<br /><br />The Arabs are a bit pessimistic because they have failed time and time again.May All the heroes of the Irgun be blessed.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-52217840881364526242010-11-21T04:20:14.896+02:002010-11-21T04:20:14.896+02:00I'll never understand why Israel's dhimmi ...I'll never understand why Israel's dhimmi Jewish leaders believe peace is possible with those who make no secret of their intention to destroy Israel.<br /><br />They cannot give away the Land Of Israel for the simple reason it is not theirs to give away and the more they try the more they are frustrated. Rebellion against Heaven is futile.<br /><br />It is time to obey G-d and accept His gift. It will only help the Jewish people face what is to come.NormanFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03365459073293643108noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-11842280557205300512010-11-21T01:45:11.208+02:002010-11-21T01:45:11.208+02:00I second what Chana says.
But also, The citizens ...I second what Chana says.<br /><br />But also, The citizens needs to buckle up and be prepared. Our leaders are selling us down the river. We need to get active.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13539920.post-68775669911241648832010-11-21T01:29:02.622+02:002010-11-21T01:29:02.622+02:00What is the chiddush?
We dont need a study to pro...What is the chiddush?<br /><br />We dont need a study to prove this - just listen to what the leaders of the "Palestinians" say.<br /><br />I dont think this study will convince leftists or our current leaders that they are wrong.Chananoreply@blogger.com