Wednesday, November 07, 2007

Boo.



Booing during a moment of silence is distasteful. Then again, booing during a football match, which is far from a bastion of culture is to be expected.

Israel's in a tizzy that Beitar fans booed during the moment of silence for Rabin; reactions range from "imprison anyone who booed for 5 years" under the law against incitement (courtesy of Israel Radio's Moshe Negbi) to suspending the Beitar team based on the booing of their fans.

Just a though...please picture this scenario:

The Hevron** performance is about to start at the Habima Theater in Tel-Aviv.

An announcement rings out;
"Would everyone please rise -- we would like to have a moment of silence in the memory of an Israeli politician, murdered because of his political views -- by an extremist.

Please join us as we honor the memory of Member of Knesset, Rabbi Meir Kahana, may G-d avenge his death."
What do you think the reaction would be?

Deafening Silence?


**The HaBima web site describes the Hevron play as: “An original and surprising political drama portraying the Israelis and Palestinians as trapped in a conflict of mythic proportions…The pressure cooker in which the tiny Jewish settlement imprisons the Arab majority in the city explodes on the day of the olive harvest.”

“My family and I went to the play ‘Hevron’, which is being performed at the HaBima-Cameri theater in Tel Aviv,” Batsheva Weinberg [widow of Col. Dror Weinberg who was killed by Arab terrorists in an attack on November 15, 2002 in which 12 people were killed.] told Army Radio. “The way they portray the settlers is exactly like the Nazis used to try to portray the Jews. They portray them as completely fanatical and without any sense of humanity, while creating emotional sympathy for Arab murderers.” (source)




Wherever I am, my blog turns towards Eretz Yisrael

13 comments:

JoeSettler said...

Someone's been reading JoeSettler on the sly...

http://joesettler.blogspot.com/2007/11/captured-audiences.html

Lurker said...

Thanks for posting the video. I hadn't known that the players were festooned in special new uniforms emblazoned with a slogan from the official catechism of the Church of Rabin And Peace...

Also, how dare you compare Rabinzal with Kahane? Kahane was a mere mortal.

Lurker said...

(For those who remember the signs and stickers that appeared all over after the Rabin assassination:)

Here's a great slogan for a Kahane memorial sign:

במותו צווה לנו על הגירוש

:-)

Lurker said...

...reactions range from "imprison anyone who booed for 5 years" under the law against incitement (courtesy of Israel Radio's Moshe Negbi)...

For those unfamiliar with the illustrious legal scholar Moshe Negbi, see here.

Anonymous said...

There sure are a lot of anti Rabin posts on this blog. I guess that doesn't condone his death... or his killer.. or those who regard Amir to be A HERO... I personally would observe a moment of silence for any Jew who was murdered. How about you folks?
You know, in the Shoah, no one decided if your politics jibed with theirs before you were killed, and no one mourned your death less because you were from the opposing political camp. All 6 mil were just plain Jews. Maybe you folks should take a step back and then try for an air of tolerance for your coreligionists. Even the lefties are Jews. Or maybe not... I guess it depends on your perspective.

Lurker said...

Anonymous (8:51): There sure are a lot of anti Rabin posts on this blog. I guess that doesn't condone his death... or his killer.. or those who regard Amir to be A HERO...

It's good to see that you understand this point (if I take your words at face value). You are absolutely correct: The fact that one exercises one's legitimate right to speak out against Rabin (or any other political figure) does not mean or imply that one supports acts of violence against him, let alone murder. While this ought to go without saying, Israel's leftist establishment and media nevertheless accuses all of Rabin's political opponents as having being responsible for his assassination.

Anonymous (8:51): I personally would observe a moment of silence for any Jew who was murdered.

Would you really? So you would observe a moment of silence for a Jew who collaborated with the Nazis? What if Yigal Amir were to be murdered? Would you observe a moment of silence for him?

Anonymous (8:51): Maybe you folks should take a step back and then try for an air of tolerance for your coreligionists.

It's funny you should say that. In Israel, the "settlers" and the religious (especially the haredim) are demonized and dehumanized in the most vicious manner on a daily basis, by government officials and by the media. In the atmosphere of intense hate that is fostered, I personally have been spat in the face and cursed in the street, without any provocation, by total strangers -- for no apparent reason other than the fact that I happened to be wearing a kippah on my head. I have never engaged in similar behavior against secular/leftist people, nor have any of my friends. So I find it curious that you should be advising the victims of this hatred and intolerance that they ought to be more tolerant of their tormentors.

Here is a small sampling of statements made by prominent left-wing public figures about the "settlers" and the religious. Why don't you compare them to the things that you've read on this blog, and then tell us once again who it is, exactly, that "should take a step back and then try for an air of tolerance for [their] coreligionists"?

"Secular Israel is the occupied territories of the religious parties. If the secular desire to live here, they have no choice but to start an intifada. Yes, I am prepared to throw the first stone."
- Yonatan Gefen, Maariv, May 1998

"The settlers are lunatics, I get angry even if I only hear about them. [...] I cannot tolerate small children with peyot [sidelocks], that they have a mori [a traditional Yemenite teacher], who teaches them to be Yemenites and not Israelis. I wanted to grab their mori and break his bones."
- Sheike Levi, Yedioth Tikshoret, November 2003

"They [the settlers] are not my brothers. [...] A civil war will be a war [...] I will run to join it [...] and I will crush their flesh with mighty blows, to rout them. [...] I will go forth to the foe in order to fight, for once, a justified war. [...] Much blood will be shed."
- HaKibbutz newsletter, August 1995

"We have established anti-ultra-Orthodox reconnaissance units that will knock off the heads of the ultra-Orthodox."
- MK Michael Roeh (Meretz), June 1998

"I was angry, and I wrote that I had a wet dream that I shot Bibi Netanyahu twice. They didn't print this. And why is it permitted to print [...], while they continually reject my wet dream about rubbing out Bibi Netanyahu?"
- Yonatan Gefen, Maariv, 1996

"The ultra-Orthodox should be hung from electric poles."
- Hadashot newspaper, October 1992

"The time has come to bury them [the settlers]."
- Uri Avneri, Haolam Hazeh magazine, November 1988

"Fascism cannot be stopped with rational arguments. This can be stopped only by force, and when there is willingness to risk a civil war. When necessary, we shall have to forcibly deal with the settlers in Ofra or in Elon Moreh. Only a person who is willing to advance against Ofra with tanks will be capable of curbing the fascist drift that threatens to inundate Israeli democracy."
- Zeev Sternhell, Davar newspaper, April 1988

"They should not try to frighten a nation -- tens of thousands of whose sons were killed in wars to ensure its very existence -- with [the prospect of] the shedding of blood in the cause of peace."
- Yoel Marcus, Haaretz, "Don't Try and Frighten Us with Bloodshed", July 9, 2004

"If, Heaven forbid, they will force us [by refusing to be evacuated], we will be compelled to open fire [against the settlers]. [...] It will be necessary to pull the trigger, slowly, responsibly, coolheadedly, and intelligently."
- MK Avshalom Vilan (Meretz), interview with Ari Shavit, Haaretz, September 5, 2004

"I will say this in clear words: There is more than one Altalena in the life of every state or nation. [...] The political leadership in the State of Israel has already taken difficult decisions when the alternative was clear, and in the future the political leadership will have to take difficult decisions when the alternative is clear."
- Ami Ayalon, former head of the General Security Service, in an interview in Yedioth Ahronoth, November 14, 2003, proposing the killing of "problematic" settlers who refuse to be evacuated willingly

"There is no doubt regarding the legitimacy of the armed resistance in the territories themselves. If the Palestinians had a bit of sense, they would concentrate their struggle against the settlements. [...] They would similarly refrain from placing explosive charges on the western side of the Green Line."
- Prof. Zeev Sternhal, Haaretz, May 11, 2001
(in an article justifying Arab terror against settlers, calling upon the Arabs to murder settlers, and encouraging them to place explosive charges, but only on the eastern side of the Green Line)

"I identify the religious by their smell."
- Sculptor Yigal Tumarkin, Israel Prize laureate

"Revisionism [the Zionist movement of Jabotinsky and Begin] is comparable to Hitlerism in its worst form."
- Chaim Weizmann [from "The Seventh Million" by Tom Segev, p. 25]

"Vladimir Hitler"
- David Ben-Gurion, referring to Zeev [Vladimir] Jabotinsky, on hundreds of occasions [ibid]

"Menachem Begin is a clearly Hitleristic type, and if he were to rule in Israel, he would rule as Hitler did in Germany and forcefully and cruelly repress the worker's movement."
- David Ben-Gurion [ibid]

"She reminds me of my grandmother in the 1930s."
- Justice Minister Tommy Lapid, after seeing on television a picture of an Arab woman crying next to the ruins of her house, the house of Arab terrorists

"IDF soldiers are Judeo-Nazis."
- Prof. Yeshayahu Leibowitz

"The [Jewish] children of Hebron are Hitler Youth."
- Prof. Moshe Zimmerman, Hebrew University

"The behavior of those who are called the 'youth of the hills' among the settlers is reminiscent of that of the skinheads in Europe and the US."
- Uzi Benzamin, Haaretz, 2002

"The leaders of the ultra-Orthodox are the enemies of democracy, no less than the blackshirts or the heads of the National Socialist Workers' [Nazi] Party."
- Prof. Michael Harsegor, Haaretz, September 1996

"Eli Yishai (as Interior Minister) acts in accordance with the Nuremberg Laws [...] the [PR] film [by the Shas party] reminds me of a Nazi propaganda film."
- Shulamit Aloni, Maariv, December 2002

"The editors of Der Stuermer [the newspaper of the Nazi party] would enjoy reading these headlines [from the Likud election flyers]."
- Haaretz, May 1996

"Citizen, religion is your enemy, it is incumbent upon every Israeli citizen to fight it. [...] When a person chooses to believe these lies, he throws man's essence into the garbage can. [...] Others will come and say that this makes [a person feel] good. [...] Many of those who joined the Nazi Party also experienced spiritual elevation and joy."
- Tel Aviv University student organization newspaper, May 2002

"There is a resemblance between the knitted-kippah-wearing IDF soldiers and the SS symbol on the Nazi uniforms."
- Gen. [Res.] Shlomo Gazit, Yedioth Ahronoth

"A general statement may be made of the ideological settlers, that they are much worse than any neo-Nazi in Austria."
- Kidmah ("Progress") magazine, January 2003

"When I see the ultra-Orthodox, I understand the Nazis."
- Sculptor Yigal Tumarkin, Israel Prize laureate

Anonymous said...

No on here as far as I see it has cheered Rabin's death, but many do not morn the end of his politics. Of course, some (me included) now long for his more centrist politics as compared with Olmert's brand of right wing politics. But lets rememeber that many vilified Begin for the Egypt peace.

Lurker said...

I don't know whether Anonymous (3:14) is the same person as Anonymous (8:51). In any case, I am still waiting for Anonymous (8:51) to answer my question: In light of the massive, vicious, ongoing incitement of the leftist establishment and media against the "settlers", why have you chosen to criticize the victims of this hatred as being intolerant, rather than criticizing the actual perpetrators of intolerance?

Anonymous (3:14): No on here as far as I see it has cheered Rabin's death, but many do not morn the end of his politics.

What do you mean by "the end of his politics"? With Oslo I and Oslo II, Rabin introduced the policy of surrendering large parts of Eretz Yisrael to terrorist organizations, without regard for the inevitable price that would be paid in Jewish blood and lives. Such a thing had never been done before by any Israeli leader. After Rabin's death, this same policy was continued by his successors: Under Netanyahu with the Hebron and Wye Accords, under Barak with Camp David (although Barak's offer was rejected by Arafat, who opted instead to launch a new large-scale terror spree), and under Sharon with the Disengagement. (As Shimon Peres himself said, "The Disengagement is the continuation of Oslo".) And as we speak, it's continuing now under Olmert, with his "generous" offer of suicidal surrender that is planned for Annapolis. So I find your mourning for "the end of [Rabin's] politics" to be rather peculiar. On the contrary, Rabin's legacy is unfortunately alive and well.

Anonymous (3:14): Of course, some (me included) now long for his more centrist politics as compared with Olmert's brand of right wing politics.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by characterizing Olmert's politics as "right wing" vis-a-vis Rabin's "centrist politics". To the contrary, Olmert's foreign policy is much more radical than that of Rabin:

* Rabin opposed the creation of a Palesinian state; Olmert wants one.

* Rabin ruled out a return to the pre-1967 borders; Olmert is offering precisely this at Annapolis.

* Rabin ruled out withrwawing from the Jordan Valley; Olmert is in favor of doing so.

* Rabin ruled out uprooting settlement blocks like Gush Katif; Olmert uprooted and destroyed Gush Katif.

* Rabin ruled out the removal of even a single settlement prior to a final status agreement with the Palestinians; Olmert has already done so, and is promising more.

* Rabin insisted on Israel retaining full security control of the borders with Egypt and Jordan; Olmert relinquished control of the Philadelphia Corridor and border crossings, turning them over to Egypt.

For a fuller expostion of these differences between Rabin's policies and those of the current Israeli leadership, see this excellent post by Treppenwitz.

therapydoc said...

The US media is fascinated by the movement in Israel to free Yigal Amir. THAT got my attention.

Anonymous said...

Lurker, Your litany of anti settler quotes is wonderful.
Do you also have a list of settler anti leftist quotes, or things Jabotinsky and Begin said about Labor politicians?
Quoting ben Gurion's remarks about Begin and Jabotinsky is a very quick way to alienate the average reader-- not necessarily one of your mindset-- because most of us respect BG despite his flaws.
I once read a magnificent piece in Treppenwitz where his friends made remarks because he had purchased a pair of glass frames that made him, look like he was from Tel Aviv, and therefore the opposition. The division it demonstrated was priceless. And this from a boy from Connecticut.
Your ideas are so magnificently polarizing that your "them and us" polarity is beyond what someone like me can fathom. How can one such as myself even consider Aliyah when your level of anger and-- dare I say it-- hatred of the secular camp is so downright frightening? I feel much more comfortable here in Galut, where I have no such powerful natural enemies (and I wear a kippa).
Of course you have an answer for anything I might say-- many answers it would seem-- and there are many commentors on the Muqata who hold your views and seemingly only one who holds mine, but I would point out nonetheless that there are extremists in both camps, and your quotes of some of the more radical remarks on the left-- which you seem to have been storing somewhere or quoting from some source book (Yeshayahu Leibowitz no less-- that really made me laugh)-- only make you seem angry and marginalized.
Before I sign off (and this is my last comment I will ever be making on this blog, as to be quite honest it is a less than welcoming place for anyone who doesn't hold the views of the vast majority of the readers) I would point out that I also criticize people in leftward leaning blogs, but I have never encountered the doctinaire reaction that I do here. This is not an inviting place to make a comment. Actually,and I'm sure this will be a source of pride for many of you, you're kind of scary. Any one of my ilk who accidentally wanders to this site will not last here for long.
Good luck in all your future blogging and I wish you all peace, and maybe just a little moderation.

Jameel @ The Muqata said...

Dear Anonymous 5:22

Your comment, along with others over the past week or two has certainly not gone unnoticed (by me).

While I may not have replied or commented, it *is* important to me that more than just the "right wing" crowd read what's here.

I would like to request (if it isn't too late) that you hold off on leaving altogether...because I would really like for this blog to not be radicalized to the point that people don't feel comfortable reading what's here (or at least replying).

If you would like to guest post here with your view of the world, I would certainly consider it...and if you might email me to ask you a few questions, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks and Shabbat Shalom.

--J.

Lurker said...

Anonymous (5:22): Lurker, Your litany of anti settler quotes is wonderful.
Do you also have a list of settler anti leftist quotes, or things Jabotinsky and Begin said about Labor politicians?


No, I do not have such a list. That's because Jabotinsky and Begin -- and their heirs (i.e., Benny Begin) -- never spoke about their political opponents in the the vile, hateful manner that the leftist politicians and media spoke about them. Nor do right-wing/religious MK's or other serious political figures on the right (e.g., Moshe Feiglin). To find offensive rhetoric on the right, you have to look for the most extreme fringe elements -- and even there, it doesn't approach the kind of stuff I quoted above.

Do you deny this? Then go ahead, prove me wrong: Give us a list of such statements made by Jabotinsky, Begin, and other respected right-wing figures. I'm open to being proven wrong.

Anonymous (5:22): Quoting ben Gurion's remarks about Begin and Jabotinsky is a very quick way to alienate the average reader-- not necessarily one of your mindset-- because most of us respect BG despite his flaws.

I see. So we ought to suppress the truth about the things that Ben Gurion said, because that would alienate people who have been indoctrinated with lies and censored histories. Don't let people know about the actual historical record, because that would upset the popular preconceptions that we want to preserve. This was the approach to history that epitomized the propaganda of societies like Stalinist Russia and Maoist China: In order to ensure respect and larger-than-life status for popular political figures, all unflattering information was stricken from the records read by the masses. Thank you for your advice, but I firmly believe that people have the right to informed opinions, and that requires that the uncensored truth be available to everyone.

Anonymous (5:22): Your ideas are so magnificently polarizing that your "them and us" polarity is beyond what someone like me can fathom. How can one such as myself even consider Aliyah when your level of anger and-- dare I say it-- hatred of the secular camp is so downright frightening?

Your attitude is similar to someone who berates an abused woman who expresses anger against the man who beats her. In what way does anything I said even begin to approach the venemous "them and us" hatred spewn every day by mainstream leftist establishment figures and the media? Yonatan Gefen brags publicly about wishing to assassinate Netanyahu, Avshalom Vilan and Ami Ayalon call for shooting unarmed civilians who don't wish to be evacuated, and Yigal Tumarkin says that the Final Solution was justified in the case of haredim (and then is honored with Israel's most prestigious prize). What in the world have I -- or anyone else on this blog -- ever said that even approaches this kind of polarizing hatred?! But amazingly, what "frightens" you is not this vicious incitement and demonization, but rather the indignation and dissent that the right expresses in response. This is hypocrisy, pure and simple.

Anonymous (5:22): Of course you have an answer for anything I might say-- many answers it would seem...

Is this also a fault on my part? Should I apologize for having answers to your questions?

Anonymous (5:22): ...there are extremists in both camps, and your quotes of some of the more radical remarks on the left-- which you seem to have been storing somewhere or quoting from some source book (Yeshayahu Leibowitz no less-- that really made me laugh)-- only make you seem angry and marginalized.

Firstly -- what, exactly, is funny about Yeshayahu Leibowitz? He is an icon of the Israeli intellectual left. Yossi Sarid listed him as one the top five people that he respects and admires. So what do you find laughable about quoting him?

More to the point -- the people I quoted are, by and large, popular, well-known public figures. Are you suggesting that people like Ami Ayalon, Tommy Lapid, Shlomo Gazit, Yoel Marcus, and Uzi Benziman are regarded as fringe extremists? Ayalon was a top candidate for Labor Party Chairman, Lapid was chairman of the third-largest party in the Knesset and Justice Minister, Gazit is a highly respected retired general, and Marcus and Benziman are senior writers for Israel's most prestigious daily (Haaretz).

And you certainly can't get more mainstream and respectable that Chaim Weizmann and David Ben-Gurion, can you? Oh, but I forgot -- it's bad for me to let people know what they said. You've got an interesting approach: In the case of someone you find insufficiently mainstream and respected, you think that I'm being deceptive by quoting them. And in the case of people who are unquestionably mainstream and respected -- I shouldn't be quoting them either, because that would "alienate the average reader". That pretty much covers all bases, doesn't it?

If I "seem angry and marginalized", that's because I am. I -- and several large sectors of the population -- have been marginalized and disenfranchised by Israel's elite ruling clique. And that makes me angry, as is only natural. Tell me, if you were regularly demonized as a "Nazi", and got spat at and cursed by total strangers, wouldn't you get angry?

Anonymous said...

Lurker, thank you for articulating things far better than I could.

-- MAOZ

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