One of the signs held by a secular demonstrator read: "Secular Jews against the Supreme Court Dictatorship"
You can read more about the background on my post earlier today (make sure to read the comments.)
YNET reports:
Some 85,000 haredim gather in Jerusalem, Bnei Brak for 'mother of all protests' against decision to jail Ashkenazi parents who refused to send their daughters to school with Sephardic students. Children hold signs reading, 'High Court fascist'The following exclusive photos from Orit Kopel (reproduced with permission) document the demonstration in Bnei Brak.
Some 50,000 protestors flocked to Jerusalem's Yirmiyahu Street along with signs reading, "High Court against the people" and "God will rule for all eternity".
In Bnei Brak, children held signs reading, "The High Court is fascist" and "Flotilla terrorists free! Students' parents to jail."
I'm reminded of the State Attorney Uri Korb who dared to criticize judges in Israel. He was almost fired from his job...Latma presented the following satire video describing the Supreme Court's field trial of Uri Korb.
One-Click Pro-Israel Activism!
It takes just 1 Click to help Israel!
Wherever I am, my blog turns towards Eretz Yisrael טובה הארץ מאד מאד
33 comments:
I side with Moshe Feiglin. As long no coercion is involved, who educates the child is a decision of the parents, not the state. And he reminds us all that the Israeli Supreme Court has NOT one - NOT one religious Jew or Mizrahi Jew on it. And Haredi Jews see no reason to submit to a Court whose political worldview reflects the prejudices of Israel's leftist elite. The parents are prepared to go to prison to prove their point - their children do not belong to the Court or to the state. Their struggle is the struggle of every Jew in Israel and is about the Jewish future of the state. I am with them.
I disagree Mekubal. If these protests and rallies had taken place when the court ruled that there must be full integration in the school that would be one thing. But here you have a case where 44 sets of parents are being jailed for the two weeks until school is over. And those parents represent a few hundred children who will now be without parental support for those two weeks. They will likely be placed with family and friends but that isn't having your parents to care for you. To say it's disruptive for these children is a gross understatement. Such wholesale disruption of family life and the possible emotional/mental fallout for the kids should have taken precedence over the court's making a political point. This was a bad move on the part of the court, and hardly likely to bring about whatever agenda the court had in mind.
i am confused by what is going on
is there a chasidic tract at this beis yaakov?
if that is the case, then there is no discrimination going on
however, if either ashkenazim and/or sephardim do not wish to share classes just because they do not wish to mix, and it has nothing to do with chasidic vs misnagid...that is a prob
im too confused though to get involved in the debate
i just hope this doesnt get plastered on the front page of the ny times
ProfK,
The parents chose those consequences. They chose them when they decided not to send their children to an integrated school. They chose them when they decided not to submit requests to serve their sentences consecutively as opposed to concurrently. The parents have decided these things. They chose to disobey the Israeli court system that handed down mandatory desegregation.
They thought they could thumb their noses at the state and its laws, because their Rebbe told them that they would not be sitting in jail for it, or at least the mothers would not be. Now they get to sit in jail and realize that their Rebbe is not G-d, and does not run the state or the world.
Where were these "tens of thousands of protesters" when all those teenagers were being thrown in jail for days, weeks, and even months during the Geirush?!
MRS. S.
don't forget to ask the same question of those who protest grave removals at building and archaelogical sites. where were they when *jewish* graves were being removed from gush katif?
Please - lets each give the other the benefit of the doubt. I see good points being raised on both sides here, but there are histories that keep us from extending this benefit where we should.
We need to stay together. We all know this, do your part to make this happen. A little bit will make all the difference.
Am Yisrael Chai...
Imagine if we got them all in the army. What an army that would be! We'd be unstoppable!
How dare these people protest the Supreme Court. The Court is the law of the land and basis there opinion on the Constitution.
Oh there is no Israeli constitution for the court to make decisions?
never mind
Emily Littela
"And he reminds us all that the Israeli Supreme Court has NOT one - NOT one religious Jew or Mizrahi Jew on it."
If he says that, he's dead wrong. Neil Hendel is religious. Edmond Levy is both. Etc.
Besides, why mention Mizrahi Jews? The ruling was in their favor.
Personally, I find the reaction of Jameel, and many other non-Haredi religious Jews, to be a bit sad here. They don't like some decisions of the Court, so they reflexively side with the haredim here for what is a disgusting issue.
if you dont want a secular state getting involved with how a school is run...dont take money from the secular state
its as plain as that
I agree with Nachum. You're defending pple who refuse to send their children to a school that had been forced to take down physical barriers segregating Sephardi and Ashkenazi kids. (or Chassidic and non Chassidic, take your pick of exclusivity). (The barriers were reported on channel 2 and in jpost.
There's a tremendous difference between the two. Sephardi-Ashkenazi would be racism. Chassidic-non-Chassidic would be ideological.
Shame on both sides for letting such a stupid argument get so blown out of proportion. Find a way to resolve it like grown ups. My god, what have we come to. And especially at a time like this when we're in the middle of being trounced by the biased media.
Whichever side you're on, please do our tribe a favor and just shut up.
Shabbat shel shalom.
And you know what I meant.
Saphardi-Ashkenazi would be "ethnic discrimination".
Better?
And it's becoming more and more clear that this has nothing to do with ethnicity at all.
Nachum wrote: "Personally, I find the reaction of Jameel, and many other non-Haredi religious Jews, to be a bit sad here. They don't like some decisions of the Court, so they reflexively side with the haredim here for what is a disgusting issue."
Abbi wrote: "You're defending pple who refuse to send their children to a school that had been forced to take down physical barriers segregating Sephardi and Ashkenazi kids. (or Chassidic and non Chassidic, take your pick of exclusivity)."
You both are defending a court which decided to force a very complex issue. Its so simple to state that this is a blatant case of ashekanzi/sephardi/chassidic/non-chassidic discrimination, when it clearly is far more complex than that.
Instead of the police/court removing the barrier, they force parents to send their kids to a school they disagree with?
They are sending Sephardi parents to jail because they don't want their kids mingling with other Sephardi kids? Do you really think the Sephardi parents going to jail hate Sephardim or is because they want an insulated environment for their children?
Wanting an insulated environment is selfish, probably offers them no opportunity to build up their self confidence, and is boorish, yet it is not "discrimination."
There's plenty of issues like this throughout Israel's society, and to pick on the Chareidim over this issue is stupid.
Do you know that in the IDF, there are elite units which are not allowed to eat with "regular" soldiers? Does that make them racist and discriminatory? It makes the policy stupid.
Israel's society is based on a fragile status-quo, for better or for worse, and matters like this need to be dealt with on a political level, not through brute force judiciary.
(And that doesn't mean I agree with an elitism attitude -- it means I'm trying to be more tolerant without creating even more polarization)
I disagree. I think the fragile status quo that tolerates mehadrin buses, draft and tax dodging and other charedi shenanigans needs to be shattered. Someone needs to take a stand and say enough is enough. I'm not against hierarchies. Obviously, there are many elitist elements to Israeli society. But they have no bearing on the case here. The court sent a message to the charedi community: You are on notice. We are not blithely tolerating your fundamentalist anti-Western ways anymore just for the sake of the staus quo.
And solving this on a political level? How the heck would that ever happen without major political reform that does away with our coalition politics or if all of the charedi parties suddenly dropped dead?
The court is the only place this can be solved and I'm glad they took a stand. Let the blackbirds demonstrate till their blue in the face. I really couldn't care less.
Honestly, I don't know what politically correct or politically incorrect definition you prefer here. And I'm not sure it even matters.
How about saying the morally correct thing and denouncing institutionalized segregation no matter what the circumstances or parameters.
Looks like the J-m Beit Din agrees with me.
Abbi; Actually, I did denounce segregation, and my primary problem is the way the court is going about dealing with it.
I don't agree.
Should Harvard let anyone in despite low grades? Should MIT let in someone who has no capabilities in Math or Engineering?
If a school is a private school (and that should be the crux of the argument here, whether it is legal for a state-funded school to set internal admission standards, and if it isn't then why wasn't Slonim privatized) and wants to establish religious criteria for acceptance, I am 100% in favor of that.
That is not any more or less discriminatory than demanding a minimum GPA, if you choose to call that discrimination.
-----
Every organization has internal admission standards.
Would the Jerusalem Beit Din allow in a Dayan who isn't Orthodox?
For year Chief Justice Aharon Barak blocked admission into the Supreme Court based on the Justice's political worldview.
And the Supreme Court is probably the most discriminatory and non-representative organization in the country.
Segregated Male and Female toilets is institutionalized segregation.
I demand that everyone here denounce it. Immediately. Now.
...
...
...
I'm still waiting.
What do you mean "thats different"?
Jameel told me about what was going on here with the comments on these two posts, but he didn't express the true extent of what appears to be much hatred and/or ignorance of the issues here.
Just for the record: I am a "purebred" Sephardi (ie on both sides), and live in the Shomron. I grew up in the US (in NY) and made aliyah about 15 years ago. I won't tell you my "ethnic" background, but will say my folks live in Deal, NJ, so you could probably figure it out.
I give my "credentials" in order to put what I am writing here into perspective. I am not Chareidi (although I have worked extensively and closely with Chareidim for many years, most recently at a well-known Chareidi newspaper). But if I were Chareidi and I lived in Emanuel, I would probably be trying to get my kid into the Ashkenazi school too!
And this is exactly the problem. The issue here is CULTURAL, not ethnic. The reason you send your daughter to a Bais Yaakov is to give her a strong Jewish education. When you have recent Ba'alei Teshuva who are still living (at least partially) the lifestyle they had previously (ie they have not transited away from it fully) it is clear that their VALUES are different from yours.
If I didn't have a TV I wouldn't want my kids to go to school with kids who do have one. If I were Shomer Shabbat to a specific extent, I would want my kids going to school with children from like-minded families.
I would expect the school I send them to to educate them in the way I expected when I signed my children up. If they couldn't or wouldn't, I would pull them out and find another school. And if the other schools were under a court order to forcibly integrate my kids, I would probably keep them home too.
Even though I am not chareidi and live in a "modern" area, I am still selective about who I send my kids to school with. My motivation (and theirs) is not about ethnicities or race, but about getting the right kind of education.
Another issue, just as important, is the sticking in of its nose by the bagatz into almost everything everybody does. No court has the right to dictate what my educational ideology and philosophy should be (curriculum, as in the core, or liba, is different). If it's good enough for chilonim to criticize mashgichim by saying "rabbis, stay out of our plate," the rest of us can say "court, stay out of school choices!!!"
When ‘dayanim’, ‘rabbis’ and false ‘mekubalim’ use the Torah for their own power and commercial profit, this behaviour is abhorrent.
No other ‘rabbi’ will ever act against another ‘rabbi’ - even when he knows his colleague is clearly desecrating the Torah. Each rabbi is only worried about losing his own position.
Therefore, the ‘rabbi’, ‘dayyan’ or false ‘mekubal’ (‘kabbalist’) will never effect justice. And he will never truly stand for the Torah or the Honour of Hashem. His pocket will always prevail.
The Torah must never be used for commercial gain and profit. Amm israel can only be lead by those who have the necessary love and respect of Hashem and the Torah.
1. Lashon HaKodesh is, “The Holy Language” or literally, “The Holy Tongue.” Lashon HaKodesh can therefore never be twisted into incorrect pronunciation.
The vowels and pronunciation have been so severely distorted by the Chassidim and communities of Eastern Europe, or those of ashkenazi origin - that some words have unfortunately become unrecognisable. The problem persists until today, and it must be corrected – speedily.
2. The vowels can never be mixed up - because Hashem doesn't like the sound of it.
There IS a correct way to pronounce every letter of the Aleph Bet. We are not allowed to change Hashem's Torah.
Drastically changing the pronunciation of any letter is changing Hashem's Torah - and this is something very grave.
Every letter is extremely holy. Each letter has a particular sound - like a particular note. When that sound or "note" is played incorrectly e.g. I play a piano with a hammer instead of my fingers - then great damage is caused.
Damage is caused Above, and correspondingly, below.
3. In Hebrew, the vowel "A" is "a" and "U" is "u". So “Amein” is “amein”. The vowels cannot ever be twisted into “OOmein.” This is not Hebrew.
4. Especially grave – is the stubborn and continual mispronunciation of Hashem’s NAME - for centuries - by the Chassidim. This is a blatant desecration of the 3rd Commandment, and a CHILLUL HASHEM – a public desecration of THE NAME of Hashem.
The NAME of HASHEM beginning ALEPH – DALED - NUN - - which is extremely Holy - is continually mispronounced every day. The “OH” sound cannot be changed into “EE”. The 2 cannot be mixed.
It is extremely urgent for all communities to correct this. It is very dangerous for the leaders: dayanim, rabbanim and rebbeim of communities to let this continue.
There is NO forgiveness for this aveirah.
The breaking of the THIRD Commandment is UNFORGIVABLE – “LO YENAKEH.”
“Lo Tissa et SHEM Hashem Elokecha lashav ki LO YENAKEH Hashem eit asher yissa et SHEMO lashav.” (Parsha of Yitro 20:7)
“You shall not take the NAME OF HASHEM, your G-d, in vain, for HASHEM WILL NOT ABSOLVE anyone who takes His NAME in vain.”
5. “ElokeiNU” means, “Our G-d.” But the Chassidim have twisted the vowels into, “ElokIYNEE”. What does “ElokIYNEE” mean? “NU” must be pronounced as “NU”. It does not turn into “NEE.”
a) “Yerushalayim” has been changed into, “YerISHU LAYIM”. What does “YERISHU LAYIM” mean? “They will INHERIT LAYIM?”
b) “Yom Tov” has been changed into, “YON TIF”. This is not Hebrew. Hashem gave us days which are “YOM TOV” – not YON TIF.
“YOM” ends with a “Mem” not a “Nun.”
“TOV” ends with a “BET” not a “Peh.”
These are glaring examples of how Lashon HaKodesh has been distorted into words that are unintelligible.
6. The “OH” sound cannot be changed into “OY” or “OIY”. “OY” is from Polish. Lashon HaKodesh cannot be mixed with Polish.
Some examples are below:
a) The word, “TORAH” has been distorted into the word, “TOIYROH”.
b) The name of “MOSHE Rabbeinu” has been distorted into the word, “MOIYSHER.” Who is MOISHER?
It is MOSHE Rabbeinu who gave us the TORAH.
Moshe did not give us the ‘TOIYROH’, or ‘TOYREH,’ and the Torah was not given to the Jewish People by a man called ‘MOIYSHER RABAIYNU.’
The name of the greatest of all the Prophets is ‘MOSHE’. It is about time the ‘rabbis’ and ‘dayanim’ got this right.
7. The last letter of the Hebrew Alphabet is a “TAFF”. But it has been changed into a “SOF”.
“Taff” is “TE.” It is not “Se.”
It is as if someone had a bad lisp (lithp) or had some teeth missing.
The Torah was not given in Munich or Hamburg. The Jewish People came out of EGYPT, which is in the Middle East.
On being called up to the TORAH (not TOIYreh), the correct way to say the Bracha (not ‘BRUCHA’ or ‘BROCHO’) is:
“………..BARUCH ATAH A-D-O-Shem NOTEN HATORAH.”
– Not “BOruch ATOY Hashem NOSSEIN HASSORAH.”
This must be corrected very urgently.
• The “AH” sound cannot be changed into an “OY/OIY” sound or an ‘AW’ sound. So when a beracha is made, a person should be saying:
“BAruch ATAH….” and NOT, “BOruch ATOY or BOruch ATAW……..”
8. The 8th letter of the Aleph Bet is “(G)HET”. It is guttural. It is not a “CHES.”
So a bridegroom is a (G)HATAN.
He is not a ‘CHATAN’ / ‘CHASSAN’ / ‘CHOSSON’/ ‘CHUSSON.’
9. The letter “AYIN” is guttural. The AYIN should not sound the same as the ALEPH.
The ashkenazi communities should start correcting their pronunciation.
10. With regard to some Sephardi communities, such as those from Iraq:
The 6th letter of the Aleph Bet is a VAV. It is not a "WAW", as they may have been taught. "Waw" is incorrect.
The sound "WE" or "WA" is actually the NAME of Hashem.
When the 2 YUD's of Hashem's NAME are written together, the sound is "WA". However this is never pronounced. This is the only time where there is the sound "WA" in the Aleph Bet.
Here are some examples:
1. David HaMelech is "DaVID HaMelech." He is not "DaWEED HaMelech."
2. A mitzvah is a "MitzVAH." It is not a "MISSWAH " or a “MUSSWA..”
3. Mitzvot are "MitzVOT." They are not "MISSWOT " or “MUSSWOT”.
4. Mitzvotav are "MitzVOTAV." They are not "MitzWOTTAW."
SHABBAT SHALOM:
As Lashon HaKodesh is a Holy language, it cannot be mixed together with any other language. To say, “Good Shabbos!” / “Good Shabbes!” / “Good Shaabos” is mixing English – a Latin-based language with Lashon HaKodesh (distorted).
The correct way to greet your friend on Shabbat is to say, “Shabbat Shalom!” And with Lashon HaKodesh, a person is giving his or her friend the greatest greeting of all - SHALOM.
It is time that Lashon HaKodesh is pronounced correctly by all communities, both ashkenazi and sephardi.
It is especially important to make the changes to pronounce the NAME of Hashem correctly, and to begin to make a Kiddush HaSHEM in all our Tefillot.
Eliyahoo: Chill. God doesn't care about the accents with which we pray. He's perfectly happy with all of them.
A gutten shabbis
Elaz: Maybe He cares if we eat kitniyot on Pesach or not?
:-)
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