Saturday, August 12, 2006

Motzei Shabbos 18 Av - August 12

12:23 AM Official statement from IDF - helicopter shot down by Hizbolla.

As the ceasefire/surrender approaches, here is the damage done to Kiryat Shmona (alone!) over the past 30 days of destruction:

1. Over 700 Katyusha rockets landed in Kiryat Shmona
2. 1,616 apartments damaged (not including roughly 100 which were damaged on Friday)
3. 115 cars were damaged
4. 3 kilomters of water pipes were damaged
5. 14 educational institutions were damaged
6. 45 Large potholes/pits
7. 100 tombstones damaged in the Kiryat Shmona cemetary.

Info from here.

12:08 AM Over 100 IDF soldiers wounded today; 15 in serious condition; 4 of which were in the IAF helicopter, which Hizbolla claims they shot down with a rocket. Over 11 IDF soldiers killed in combat since Friday evening till now. Additional 5 in critical condition.

Five soldiers died in the helicopter crash - total killed today: 16. Fox reports that the helicopter was on it's way into Lebanon with combat soldiers.

Olmert's unconditional surrender to Hizbolla is making everyone wonder what the whole point of this war was...we didn't accomplish any objectives, except for losing many soldiers. Either we fight the war, the way were are supposed to -- intending on winning or war, or not to fight at all. Doing a half baked job is the worst of all options. The problem is, Olmert must be the worst Prime Minister for Israel to have when fighting a war -- since his entire thought process can be summed up best, by no one other than Olmert himself:

We are tired of fighting, we are tired of being courageous, we are tired of winning, we are tired of defeating our enemies, we want that we will be able to live in an entirely different environment of relations with our enemies.



Ehud Olmert Address at Israel Policy Forum, New York, June 9, 2005

If he's tired of winning, we need to quickly find leadership which isn't tired of winning...and has the energy to win.


10:54 PM Reports of heavy fighting throughout Southern Lebanon. Massive airlift of troops to the Litani river. 11 Soldiers killed, 80 wounded. Helicopter crash kills 1. More news as it comes out.

Wherever I am, my blog turns towards Eretz Yisrael

22 comments:

bluke said...

You forgot the biggest news, the cease fire at 7am Monday where Israel unconditionally surrenders.

Why did Olmert launch a major ground offensive when they already agreed on a ceasefire, does that make sense? See my posts Now Olmert starts to fight? and UN Ceasefire resolution: Defeat for Israel

Eli said...

Because they are trying to clean out as much Hizzbolah as they can. Besides, I don't understand how the cease fire is going to start Monday when the international force won't show up for another week or two. Do they really think that just because Israel stops firing, but won't leave, Hisbollah will also stop firing? This appears like some political game between Israel and US.

In any case, I am personally am totally not sure if this war was worth it or not. On one hand we couldn't just sit by, on the other we didn't destroy Hizbollah. I heard people's opinions both ways. I don't know what to think.

Jameel @ The Muqata said...

Eli: If none of our objectives are accomplished by the cease-fire, then you are correct -- this war wasn't worth anything.

AMERICA~LAND OF THE FREE said...

I heard that Israel would hold down th efort so to speak until the 30,000 troops arrived and then they woudl return to the Israeli border. I am sorry for any more Israel loss of life. I pray for you all.

Mike Miller said...

none of our objectives

Who knows if we accomplished our objectives? Does anyone know what our official objectives were?! Kinda hard to keep score if you don't know what the game is...

As I see (saw) it, our first response was the scare the ^#$^# out of Hezbollah. We did that (cf reports from Nasrallah that they never expected this kind of reaction), but they showed that they could live with it. We also attempted to pressure Lebanon to fight Hezbollah, but that seems to have failed. After that, I haven't heard of any direction in this war. They attack, so we fight back (because we obviously can't sit still), but targetting a (used) rocket launch site doesn't win anything. It may protect some people from subsequent launches, but that's a different goal, and not one that involves victory. True, it's an important mission... but it's tactical and not strategic.

We won nothing here. We destroyed more than our share of Hezbollah resources (both rockets and the "people" launching them), but they're all replaceable. We killed innocent (and hopefully not so innocent) civilians, but what good did that do us? We lost troops and civilians... for what?

Jameel @ The Muqata said...

Mike: Israel's foreign minister, Tzippi Livni clearly announced at the beginning of the war, what Israel's terms would be for a ceasefire:

1. Unconditional return of kidnapped IDF soldiers.

2. The complete and total disarming of Hizbolla

3. The replacement of Hizbolla in Southern Lebanon with the Lebanese Army and/or an additional military force capable of seriously keeping Hizbolla out.

It appears that Israel has backtracked on all of these issues, and gotten the worst deal in history out of it.

1. Israel will need to release terrorists.

2. Israel to be pressured to leave the Shaaba Farm (Har Dov)

3. Hizbolla NOT to be disamred -- all their long range/medium range missiles will remain a threat to Israel from North of the Litani.

4. The Arabs now view Nasralla as the mightiest Arab leader of all -- who brought Israel to it's knees, a thousand-fold more than Sadam Hussein ever dreamed of doing.

Need more? I assume you'll be able to see kids selling white flags at major intersections tomorrow to be proudly flown from cars...as Olmert continues to say, "We Won"

Eli said...

So in the end (if this is really the end) what happened? I was reading about the past few wars over the last few days. It looks like the public opinion after the Yom Kippur was really bad. Golda resigned because of it. The first occupation of Lebanon wasn't any better. Same with Gaza. Withdrawl last year became a disaster.

But the worst of it all, in my humble opinion, is that even in hindsight we still don't know what was the right thing to do. In 1973 we had to fight, the way we did it wasn't that great, but what would have been a better way? Leaving Gaza was bad. Staying was also not that great, and both caused loss of human life.
So how do we learn from our mistakes?
Seriously, does anyone have a serious proposal how the current crisis should have been handled at least upto now? So far I haven' seen anything interesting, from anyone. And I myself have no clue. It just sucks all around.

Jameel @ The Muqata said...

Eli:

1. We never should have run away from Lebanon the way we did. You want to leave Lebanon 6 years ago? Do it PROPERLY -- pound Hizbolla as we leave...or better yet, force the UN to accept responsibility.

Had we attacked Hizbolla over the past 6 years in Lebanon when they were stockpiling for this war, then we never would have reached the awful stage where we are now.

Instead of IGNORING Nasralla over the past 6 years, when he clearly threatened us, the Israeli governments tried their utmost to minimize conflict in the North, so as to not upset their hopes for peace with the Palestinians. In the end, we got burned in both directions.

Look - how can we possibly win a war, when Olmert clearly states he is tired of winning wars!?

Additional SNAFUS:

1. Using the IDF for the hitnatkut last year was a disaster. Use the army to fight wars, not drag Jews out of their homes. Instead of trying to get the best generals into the MATKAL, Ariel Sharon fired Yaalon and put in whatever yes man-generals he could find...that would support the hitnatkut, and not neccessarily the best generals needed by the IDF to win wars...

Lastly - Israel desperately needs leaders who are not driven by small-minded politics; leaders who can rally the people behind him, and LEAD. And that means, even if doing something awful like the hitnatkut -- they need to deal HUMANELY with the Israelis kicked out of their homes, instead of ostracizing them, demeaning them, demoralizing them, and treating them as the enemy of the State.

Unfortunately - I have yet to see any leaders like that in the Knesset today.

AMERICA~LAND OF THE FREE said...

For what its worth here are a lot of good pictures. There are over 300. Hopefully nine of them are fake...I hope for peace for you all.

http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/events/wl/080601mideast;_ylt=Am5oC1zxWhtcTbanoEowDEus0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--

The problem all over the world when a war breaks out that involves soldiers is the loss of life of these good men. That is the problem here in the states. If we could have a war where none of our soldiers were being killed then the general public would be saying nothing about the war. I believe it is the same in Israel.
This is just the way it is. I hope for the sake of Israel and its people that the leader ship there becomes united and strong again.

Bless you all. :O)

Eli said...

Jameel.
So did Israel ever have a leader like what you're talking about? What PM was ever like that?

daat y said...

Jameel,
Added to your important list-the effect this will have on our enemies.WHEN THEY SEE WEAKNESS THEY GO FOR THE BLOOD.
We also do not control what is being brought in to Gaza.
This is Israel's first loss in war.

FrumGirl said...

I'm reading your blog motzei shabbos before I see the news... all I can think of to say is 'what the f' and 'noooooooooooooooooooo'

daat y said...

Most cynical of all by Olmert is having our brothers and sisters killed now, after the ceasefire so Olmert can save some face (see bluke)

Pinchas Floyd said...

i am very dismayed

the worst part is the soldiers not being brought home

horrible

olmert must step down

it is quite obvious he did not read this week's parsha

Just Shu said...

Jameel, for what it's worth I just read the U.S. said the Isarel can keep the Shabba Farms. I haven't read anything about the release of the kidnapped soldiers..did everyone forget them???

From what I've read and understand this "peace treaty" is a big screw you" from the U.N.

Narsallah himself said that until Israel ends their "occupation" they will contiune to fight Israel, so what the hell is the point. Hopefully they have some good intelligence, and can secrectly slit his throat before signing the peace thingy

AMERICA~LAND OF THE FREE said...

Narsallah I have heard is a "DEAD MAN WALKING" Its just a matter of time. Sooner is btter than later.

God Bless you all.

Ben Ami said...

feels like olmert figures if he can't win for his country, might as well help the others win. someone explain to him the difference between famous and infamous, hero and zero.

Ari Kinsberg said...

When the war first broke out people were talking about its aim being to bring back the kidnapped soldiers. I thought this was wrong, as the aim should be to root out Hezbollah. Now that that the war might be over (whether the cease fire will stick or not is irrelevant), Israel has gotten nothing (or is now worse off). At the very least they should have been able to bring the kidnapped soldiers home.

Shavu'ah tov. May this week be a better one.

the watcher said...

wake up!!!... everyone know israel defeated ..this just time perhaps not today but someday happen
always israel trust in the force and more force generate hate .
this just beginning of tragedy

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