Wednesday, September 09, 2009

Challenging Peace Now - Targeting Illegal Palestinian Building

What drives Peace Now?

In their quest for peace, targeting settlements is high on their list. They clearly state that in their opinion, settlements are an existential threat to Israel.
Settlements – including settlement expansion and the proliferation of proto-settlements known as “illegal outposts” – are a political, security, and economic liability for Israel, and an existential threat to Israel as a Jewish, democratic state.

Politically, they extinguish hope among Palestinians that Israel is serious about making peace. They destroy the credibility of Palestinian moderates who reject violence and tell their people that negotiations with Israel are the correct path to statehood. They create facts on the ground that make any viable arrangements for a two-state solution difficult, and eventually, impossible. (Peace Now)
Funded by less than friendly counties towards Israel, Peace Now tattle-tales daily to the world about every single brick moved within a Jewish settlement in the West Bank.

However, there is also illegal Palestinian construction throughout the entire West Bank, constructed against zoning rules and electrical code, and are being built to create "Palestinian Facts On the Ground". Till now, the Israeli Government has turned a blind eye to these gross violations for fear of angering the Palestinians and world opinion.

The "Regavim" organization has finally said, "enough."

Last week, Regavim challenged the Israeli Government in Israel's Supreme Court.
The High Court asked state prosecutors why the state discriminates between illegal Jewish and Palestinian building in the West Bank, citing the lack of enforcement of demolition warrants against illegally-built Palestinian buildings in the area.

The High Court hearing on Thursday came after the right-wing "Regavim movement for the protection of national land", called for the court to force Defense Minister Ehud Barak to explain why he hasn't carried out the demolition of illegal buildings in the Palestinian villages of Asaviya and Yitma in the West Bank, which are located next to the settlement of Rahalim.

The state said in response to the petition that since 1996, demolition orders were given against 50 buildings in Asaviya, but only 3 have been carried out. (Haaretz)
The Supreme Court issues its ruling minutes ago:
High Court justices ruled that the State must enforce demolition orders issued for two illegal buildings near the Palestinian villages of al-Sawaya and Yatma and that a timetable be implemented in order to follow up on the enforcement.

The ruling was made in response to a petition filed by Regevim on the issue. The justices also ruled that the State must issue an update within 45 days that will detail the actions taken on the issue. (ynetnews)

Regavim has stated they will be bringing new complaints of illegal Palestinian construction on a daily basis to the Supreme Court.

If Peace Now really wants to help the Palestinians, they should back off the settlements.

Regavim: Kudos.

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73 comments:

Anonymous said...

Great to hear another side of the story not the one sided Israel bashing we get force feed.

Lion of Zion said...

:)

Anonymous said...

I'm glad someone is speaking the truth! The quest for peace has nothing to do with settlements but with the very fact that Hamas continues to shoot rockets from Gaza into Israel! That is the issue and I don't understand why the media is not speaking about this!!

Anonymous said...

Let's recap... Palestinians are building in Palestinian villages, but it is illegal because they do not respect Israeli zoning code and Israeli electrical code...Are you blind, stupid or what? How can you compare Israli settlement construction on land that is NOT YOURS with palestinian construction on THEIR PROPERTY that has to obey what is essentially foreign law? Let;s say I have a cow, but you stole my house and yard with the cow in it...and then you're telling me it is illegal to milk my cow becuase that's not my yard?!!

Renegade said...

@anon 8:19

did i understand you correctly?

you're saying that since the pali's are building on stolen Israeli land anyways they shouldn't need to follow any laws?

Anonymous said...

No, I'm saying that since Palestinians are building on their land why do they need to follow Israeli zoning codes?

Renegade said...

"...since Palestinians are building on their land why do they need to follow Israeli zoning codes?"

For the same reason that I need to follow the NY zoning codes if I want to build on my land in NY.

Anonymous said...

The people of New York got to vote on the politicians that made the New York zoning codes. The Palestinians have no say in the Israeli zoning codes, because they have no vote in the Israeli elections. That's because the Jewish Zionist Movement took control of their land, and caused them to be outcasts.

This is just another example of the Jewish people's attempt to harrass th Palestinians (who legally own the land).

Anonymous said...

To ignore the fact you've built settlements on land that isn't yours to begin with is contrary to International Law (which every country must follow). Last time I checked Israel was a country. But somehow we should ignore the fact they've broken the law for 40+ yrs. According to International Law, an occupier is not allowed to build much less move its population to land it captured in a war. Now we'll have a debate about how that law doesn't apply in this instance but again the main point will always be ignored and when all else fails, the person making the argument will be labeled an anti-semite. How convenient! But that whole argument will fall on deaf ears. When you ask Israel to follow International Law...it's equivalent to being anti-semetic. But they'll never be able to prove how it's being anti-semetic. No one is ever allowed to critique Israeli policy. So much for 'freedom of speech'...but if you want to print cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad it's A-OK!!

Anonymous said...

Anony 11:08, you make it sound as though there is something wrong with being "anti-semetic." There shouldn't be anything wrong with it, because there is nothing wrong with being against a religion that think they have God in their pocket.

I'm not a Muslim, nor do I belong to any religion. I'm against ALL religions that think they have God on their side againt another humans. But I have a special kind of animosity towards the nation of Israel. They are the ones who are causing all the trouble by claiming to be the "Israel" of the Biblical prophecies. They ar just a bunch of hooligan imposters.

So don't be concerned about being labeled "anti-semetic." That's a good thing. Anyone who isn't is not really aware of what the prophets said. They were very anti-semetic also, because they said that the "false Israel" was going to get their butts kicked.

Chris J

Anonymous said...

an·ti-Sem·i·tism (nt-sm-tzm, nt-)
n.

1. Hostility toward or prejudice against Jews or Judaism.
2. Discrimination against Jews.

anti-Semitism
an attitude or policy of hatred and hostility toward Jewish people. — anti-Semite, n.

--------------

Christian

Noun
1. a person who believes in and follows Jesus Christ
2. Informal: a person who displays the virtues of kindness and mercy encouraged in the teachings of Jesus Christ

Adjective
1. of Jesus Christ, Christians, or Christianity
2. kind or good

Anonymous said...

Jews believe they are SPECIAL above every other race on earth and they THINK in racial terms, from a tribal mentality that seeks to punish all those that dare even criticize them for anything. Even criminality! LOL! What a people!

Renegade said...

wow, who let the dogs out...

a couple of questions for you:

Is there any part of Israel that you don't consider "stolen palestinian land"?

"but again the main point will always be ignored"
what exactly is the main point? you kind of lost me there?

Anonymous said...

To the moron that believes it is Arab land. When you start a war and lose there are consequenses. When you start 5 wars and lose there are consequences. Arabs should not get one inch of land back. The reparations that should have been levied against the 7 arab nations that have made war with ISRAEL COME IN THE FORM ON LAND. It always has been and always will be the jewish homeland. YOu asswipes just dont get it. No nation in the world has had to endure 60 years of constant war. Why because of the Arab goal to destroy Israel. Just like the Nazis, the Arab benefactor from WW2, tried to do. So there is no pity for those poor POS because they are in their way because of their owen stupid actions KIMO AL Quds

Gibran said...

Your a very smart person.

Palestinians can't build on land that's legally their's because Israel has stolen it while Israel can, because it's stolen it. Totally legal right?

Oh yes if I was in New York I'd have to respect whatever zone laws their were but seeing as it's Palestine and Palestinians...who can't even vote in Israeli election I think not.

The problem is not Hamas rockets, the problem is the genocide thats going on and all the stolen land.

Hamas rockets are like kiddie rockets.

Anonymous said...

It is Arab land. It always has been Arab land. The invasion of illegal Zionist immigrants doesn't constitute legal ownership. They took the land over with military might, supported by Christian nations, especially the USA. But that doesn't make it "right." All that means is that they had more "might." And yes, they should have to fight for 60 years because of what they did.

And who are you to call someone a "moron?" Only a moron would try to use the Bible to justify their claim to land that doesn't belong to them. That's what the nation of Israel did, and is still doing. The true "Israel" doesn't begin to gather until the land becomes desolate, and the sea encroaches on the coastlands. Anyone who calls their selves "Israel" before then is just a bunch of misled imposters.

Chris J

Anonymous said...

I can't believe this Jewish Zionist propaganda made it onto Yahoo's front page. That little banner with all the smiling Jewish kids is a joke.

Those cartoons should all have M-16's and there Should be American F-16's flying above dropping bombs while Palestinians do whatever they can to defend what little they have. Just because you have the U.S. behind you with unlimited military might doesnt make you right. Take this Jewish Propaganda somewhere else.

Anonymous said...

"It is Arab land. It always has been Arab land. The invasion of illegal Zionist immigrants doesn't constitute legal ownership."

How about when we bought that land from greedy Arab landlords? Does that 'constitute legal ownership' to you?

Or when hundreds of thousands of Arab immigrants from modern day Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt etc. floded Brittish Mandate Palestine to take advantage of the roads, cities, electricity, water, etc. that Jews dedicated thier lives to building there, how exactly does that make it 'Arab Land'?

"Those cartoons should all have M-16's and there Should be American F-16's flying above dropping bombs while Palestinians do whatever they can to defend what little they have."

What an IGNORANT, DISHONEST thing to say.

"Take this Jewish Propaganda somewhere else."

This is a Jewish/Israeli board, who are you to tell us to 'take it somwhere else'? You take your lies and hatred and ignorance and go talk sh*t on Jews and Israel elsewhere.

Anonymous said...

Palestinian homes being destroyed by Israelis.

After 60 years, things stay the same.

Look at some of the people posting. Happy about this? Glad? A home is being demolished in a country that does not offer social services like the USA and you are happy?


Go figure. Its the same country that wouldnt allow Ethiopian Jews to mix with their own European Jews in a school or a settlement. Itfoo khabeeby, itfoo.

Anonymous said...

Just out of curiosity, how many Palestinian buildings were approved for construction by Israel? Since the answer is usually none, the facts remain that they have no option but to build them illegally and not to code.
You can always trust the Israelis to try and paint themselves the victims in every event. As to how dare you question them, you must be an anti semite.

Anonymous said...

This is why Israel should not have the nuclear bomb.

This is just an insight into the filthy blood thirsty zionist mentality.

Look at the picture. Zoom out a little. Step by step, lets go.

1. Illegal settlements are being attacked by the international community.

2. Israeli zionists, instead of complying or at least negotiating with international community. They take their former ruler Humarabi's code an eye for an eye and execute it.

3. You want to demolish our illegal settlements that we did not pay for to begin with and is being built on Palestinian land we will demolish your houses on top of your heads.

Imagine what they would do with nuclear arsenal? You want Israel to agree to justice? They wont! They will nuke you before compromising with you. After all you are not Jewish, you are subhuman to them.

Anonymous said...

People need to be anti-Semite's. I mean come on, have you ever seen or heard of a jew ever questioning themselves or anything they or their culture do?

all that Palestinians are to them is in the way of what they THINK is theirs.

Anonymous said...

"How about when we bought that land from greedy Arab landlords? Does that 'constitute legal ownership' to you?"

Yes it does. But taking land that has been vacated by previous residents doesn't constitute legal ownership, even if the Israeli government says it does.

"Or when hundreds of thousands of Arab immigrants from modern day Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt etc. floded Brittish Mandate Palestine to take advantage of the roads, cities, electricity, water, etc. that Jews dedicated thier lives to building there, how exactly does that make it 'Arab Land'?"

You've gotta be kidding. Most of the Jews in British Mandate Palestine were "illegal immigrants." What ever they built should have been taken, and they should have been sent back to where they came from.

Chris J

g funk allstar said...

"Palestinians can't build on land that's legally their's because Israel has stolen it while Israel can, because it's stolen it. Totally legal right?"

Please exercise your big brain a step further and enlighten us how Israel is 'stolen' from the Palestinians?

Lets see.. I buy land from your wealthy landlords, and then years later you decide you don't want any Jews in the neighborhood, kill me and take back the land, and then pretend like it was never mine. Then you have the nerve to tell me I 'stole it' from you? OYE VEY!

What about all the Jews and Kibbutzim throughout the West Bank and Gaza who were slaughtered by Arabs in 1948 and had thier homes and land and property all stolen by Arab armies, paramilitaries, and rioters?

Does ALLAH give you the right to keep taking and murdering and lying about everyone and everything ever?

Anonymous said...

Arabs come from the middle east. You are either Arab Israelie or Arab Palestinian. You all should follow the same laws.

Anonymous said...

Chris J, you said:
"But taking land that has been vacated by previous residents doesn't constitute legal ownership, even if the Israeli government says it does."

So for example when Jordan invaded the West Bank and mudered and expelled all the Jews there and took thier homes and land and property and then handed it over to the Arabs that lived there, that DOESNT CONSTITIUTE LEGAL OWNERSHIP EITHER! Even if leigions of hatemongers like you say so. ;)

Anonymous said...

Settlers above the age of 18 should be considered CIVILIAN COMBATANTS. They all have weapons, that just confirms the label that should be given to them.

The settlers in Hebron regularly go around abusing Arabs. Israeli soldiers usually just wave it off.

On the other hand if an Arab is caught 3 miles from a settlement, his life is decided upon by a 22 year old sniper. 99% of the time they were just lost. The other 1% they were trying to get into Israel to work. Since their economy is suffocating due to Israeli and worldwide sanctions, i.e. Gaza.

Anonymous said...

During the Mandate, the Yishuv or Jewish community in Palestine, grew from one-sixth to almost one-third of the population. According to official records, 367,845 Jews and 33,304 non-Jews immigrated legally between 1920 and 1945. It was estimated that another 50–60,000 Jews and a small number of non-Jews immigrated illegally during this period. Immigration accounts for most of the increase of Jewish population, while the non-Jewish population increase was largely natural. These figures have been supported by later studies, though estimates of Arab immigration have been disputed.

Initially, Jewish immigration to Palestine met little opposition from the Palestinian Arabs. However, as anti-Semitism grew in Europe during the late 19th and early 20th centuries, Jewish immigration (mostly from Europe) to Palestine began to increase markedly, creating much Arab resentment. The British government placed limitations on Jewish immigration to Palestine. These quotas were controversial, particularly in the latter years of British rule, and both Arabs and Jews disliked the policy, each for its own reasons.

Between 1922 and 1947, the annual growth rate of the Jewish sector of the economy was 13.2%, mainly due to immigration and foreign capital, while that of the Arab was 6.5%. Per capita, these figures were 4.8% and 3.6% respectively. By 1936, the Jewish sector had eclipsed the Arab one, and Jewish individuals earned 2.6 times as much as Arabs.(Khalidi 2006, pp. 13–14)

In 1920, the majority of the approximately 750,000 people in this multi-ethnic region were Arabic-speaking Muslims, including a Bedouin population (estimated at 103,331 at the time of the 1922 census and concentrated in the Beersheba area and the region south and east of it), as well as Jews (who comprised some 11% of the total) and smaller groups of Druze, Syrians, Sudanese, Circassians, Egyptians, Greeks, and Hejazi Arabs.

1922, First British census of Palestine shows population of 757,182, with 78% Muslim, 11% Jewish and 9.6% Christian.
1931, Second British census of Palestine shows total population of 1,035,154 with 73.4% Muslim, 16.9% Jewish and 8.6% Christian.
A discrepancy between the two censuses and records of births, deaths and immigration, led the authors of the second census to postulate the illegal immigration of about 9,000 Jews and 4,000 Arabs during the intervening years. Other authors have claimed a much larger Arab immigration, but these claims have been dismissed by others.

As of 1931, the territory of the British Mandate of Palestine was 26,625,600 dunams (26,625.6 km2), of which 8,252,900 dunams (8,252.9 km2) or 33% were arable. Official statistics show that Jews privately and collectively owned 1,393,531 dunams (1,393.53 km2) of land in 1945. Estimates of the total volume of land that Jews had purchased by 15 May 1948 are complicated by illegal and unregistered land transfers, as well as by the lack of data on land concessions from the Palestine administration after 31 March 1936. Arabs were prohibited to sell and transfer land to Jews. According to Avneri, Jews held 1,850,000 dunams (1,850 km2) of land in 1947. Stein gives the estimate of 2,000,000 dunams (2,000 km2) as of May 1948.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine

Chris J

Anonymous said...

"So for example when Jordan invaded the West Bank and mudered and expelled all the Jews there and took thier homes and land and property and then handed it over to the Arabs that lived there, that DOESNT CONSTITIUTE LEGAL OWNERSHIP EITHER! Even if leigions of hatemongers like you say so. ;)"

It depends on who held the last "legal" title. If the Jews stole the land, then they needed to be driven off. Since we know that they did steal the land, we know that Jordon was right in doing so.

Why do you call me a "hatemonger?" I don't practice hate. I merely call things the way I see them. I don't like a lot of what the Muslims do either.

Chris J

g funk allstar said...

"Go figure. Its the same country that wouldnt allow Ethiopian Jews to mix with their own European Jews in a school or a settlement. Itfoo khabeeby, itfoo."

Go figure, racist hatemongers lie about Israel to make people hate it...

That was one single religious school in the entire state of Israel that decided it could not continue to enroll an Ethiopian pupil because he was not religious and didn't have enough religious background to be thrown unprepared into classes with no knowledge or skills to be able to make it.

But of course, I see you wan't to pervert the truth so you can keep hating Jews.

Anonymous said...

If Israel is going to continue to accept free millitary aid,free equipment and free mechanics to work on said equipment from the US govt with giving NOTHING in return then why shouldnt the US have some right to an opinion. Or does isreal really think that if the US didnt shell out millions a year to help their asses that they would have what they do. Kindly remember who headed up the UN group that pushed for the CREATION of Israel and has helped it ever since. Free of charge. Personally as A US Citizen I think that Israel needs to go it on its own. If it wants apaches,blackhawks and other US tech and mechanics and parts then it needs to pay RETAIL price for it,although I am so certain that this will upset many folks in Israel. Then again I think that the US needs to hand a bill to all the countries its rebuilt etc since 1900 and expect payment since without the US they would have been nothing but ruins for years.

Anonymous said...

Chris J:

"Since we know that they did steal the land, we know that Jordon was right in doing so."

Chris says its OK to murder Jews and steal thier homes and property BASED ON AN OBVIOUS LIE(That we 'stole the land'). Gee, I don't know why someone whould consider you a hatemonger...

Jews did not 'steal' that land from anyone! We built Kibbutzim and towns on land we bought! We settled barren swamps and valleys in places where there was no one else! But if you listen to these Israel haters, you would think we just parachuted in with M16's one day and started mowing everyone down and brutally 'taking thier land'.

I'm sorry the Arabs didn't like the fact that the demographics changed. I'm sorry that the Arabs didn't like thier new Jewish neighbors. But that doesn't give them the right to riot and attack and invade us.

oye vey said...

"On the other hand if an Arab is caught 3 miles from a settlement, his life is decided upon by a 22 year old sniper. 99% of the time they were just lost. The other 1% they were trying to get into Israel to work. Since their economy is suffocating due to Israeli and worldwide sanctions, i.e. Gaza."

Totally, all Jewish settelers do all day is sit around and shoot innocent Palestinians. Idiot.

Oh yes, I forgot how gracious the Palestinians are to Jews in the West Bank... So hospitable... NOT!

And thats right, there is ZERO percent threat to Israel, right? Just a bunch of nice, innocent people who have not hated our guts with religious zeal for centuries. In fact there is, nor has there ever been' any form of undue Arab agression at any point in modern history -- its all just a big Zionist conspiracy...

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 3:59

Let's be more precise-

Arabs come from Arabia.
Jews come from Judea.

Tell ya what-

You can keep Arabia-it's not our homeland.

We'll keep Judea-it's not your homeland.

fred4945 said...

I am one of millions of Americans who once supported Israel unequivocally, but who now find you a threat to our security as well as world peace.

Not that long ago, 75% of American supported the position of Israel's government. Now, 70% of Americans support a tough stand against your settlements and 50% of Americans oppose a foreign policy which supports one side over the other in your conflict with other Arabs.

You'd do well to heed the poster who said the world now sees you all as Arabs, whether Israeli or Palestinian or Lebanese or Saudi.

I've come to believe that, in 50 years, there will not be an Israel -- at least as we know it today. There are 3 reasons for this: (1) You cannot hold back the growing Palestinian population with apartheid policies. Who knows who their Mandela will be, but you cannot stop the tide.
(2) Increasingly, moderate American Israelis now oppose the rabid Zionism represented by AIPAC, and a huge percentage of American Israelis under age 25 have no passion for your cause (all the free indoctrination trips to Israel for young American Jews will not reverse that).
(3) Without American support fueled by a one-sided myopic position on the part of American Jews, today's Israel cannot survive economically -- to say nothing of militarily. (I mean, who can you get away with using those nukes on, anyway?)

In 50 years, Israel's Zionist extremists will sit at the Wall and moan in anguish for the long gone 2-state opportunity.

More and more Americans are unwilling to risk other 911s -- to say nothing of future wars against Muslims -- to support an Israeli apartheid which flies in the face of every principle we hold dear.

Anonymous said...

It was their water.

In 1964, Israel began withdrawing water from the Jordan River for its National Water Carrier. The following year, the Arab states began construction of the Headwater Diversion Plan, which, once completed, would divert the waters of the Banias Stream before the water entered Israel and the Sea of Galilee, to flow instead into a dam at Mukhaiba for use by Jordan and Syria, and divert the waters of the Hasbani into the Litani River, in Lebanon. The diversion works would have reduced the installed capacity of Israel's carrier by about 35%, and Israel's overall water supply by about 11%.

The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) attacked the diversion works in Syria in March, May, and August 1965, perpetuating a prolonged chain of border violence that linked directly to the events leading to war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War

They had every right to divert it. Israel had no right to attack them.

But they did attack them, and a war ensued.

The 1967 War also laid the foundation for future discord in the region - as on November 22, 1967, the UN Security Council adopted Resolution 242, the "land for peace" formula, which called for Israeli withdrawal "from territories occupied" in 1967 in return for "the termination of all claims or states of belligerency."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War

"I'm sorry the Arabs didn't like the fact that the demographics changed. I'm sorry that the Arabs didn't like thier new Jewish neighbors. But that doesn't give them the right to riot and attack and invade us."

Are you saying tha you wouldn't attack people who had stolen your home?

Chris J

Anonymous said...

it's good to hear another side of the story. no more Israeli bashings. for goodness sakes, why can't the palestinians just focus their energies on building their own infrastructure, homes & schools according to the law?!? no more firing rockets, guns & etc. & touting those weapons & wearing those headscarves to look impressive?!?? yes, destruction of palestinian lives is tragedy that should be avoided, but it's difficult to win sympathy if you're doing the same. all the time, i get bombarded with the line, 'look how many children the Israelis killed in gaza.' well, have they asked themselves how many Israeli lives or others they have taken?!? blowing us up is not going to win any sympathy or understanding from the world.

Anonymous said...

There are 3 fundemental facts in this conflict to determine who is the oppressor originally & who has ever since defended himself.

1) Palestinians/Arabs have ALWAYS lived in that strip of land ever since the start of time (of course the jews back in the day wer of palestinian/arab decent, not some random european zionist aggressors coming to steal land)

2) The zionists are who ATTACKED first. Who STOLE the land. Who carried out the MASSACERS of sabra and shatila and dayr yasin.

3) The palestinians ever since had no choice but to defend (and must) themselves of zionist aggression in ANY MEANS POSSIBLE. <-----period

CONCLUSION: every single thing the palestinians have done (whether you call it "terrorism" or whatever) ever since the late 1800is of JUST cause. You must go way back in the history of the region to understand that the ethnic peoples of palestine (whether they be jewish, muslim or christian) were always arab and have lived together in peace up until this zionist terrorist campaign arose.

P.S. its funny to notice that the zionists are doing what Hitler used to do to them to the palestinians nowadays. sad and shameful.

Israel should return all the stolen land back to the original people and everyone should go back home. people make this conflict so darn confusing.

Anonymous said...

HEY HEY CHRIS JAY!!!!
"Are you saying tha(t) you wouldn't attack people who had stolen your home?"

CHRIS J, CHRIS J please respond to my point! Do you not understand that my point is that NO ONE HAD TAKEN ANYONE'S LAND prior to May 15, 1948, when Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Lebanon along with Palestinian paramilitary factions invaded the newly declared state of Israel.

OK so care to actually address my point? That means not responding with more than 'well you stole the land' again for the 3rd time. They didn't steal the land that the UN gave them partition on. Of course that all changed once the ANGRY ARABS invaded, and Israelis were massively outnumbered by SEVEN ARMIES. Did you know that in 1948 there were Jews who lived all over the West Bank and Gaza? Jews who didn't steal JACK SQUAT from anyone, but that didn't stop your precious Palestinian paramilitaries from ethically cleansing them.

FACT: Arabs violently and murderously ETHNICALLY CLEANSED the whole west bank and Gaza of JEWS until Israel invaded the West bank in 1967. WHY DON'T YOU GIVE A RATS ASS ABOUT THAT, CHRIS J?

FACT: For all your loudmouth talk of APARTHEID and STEALING LAND and ETHNIC CLEANSING the Israelis have let the Palestinians FLOURISH compared the the GENOCIDAL treatment Jews have faced in Arab lands and at the hands of ANGRY ARABS for HUNDREDS OF YEARS.

OK CHIRS J, at least your not as bad as this guy:

"Palestinians/Arabs have ALWAYS lived in that strip of land ever since the start of time (of course the jews back in the day wer of palestinian/arab decent"

Yeah, since the DINOSAURS! And the Moon is made of CHEESE! SOUNDS LIKE WE HAVE A REAL STUDENT OF HISTORY HERE!! Please, enlighten us further:

"CONCLUSION: every single thing the Palestinians have done (whether you call it "terrorism" or whatever) ever since the late 1800is of JUST cause."

Wow, every single thing since 'the late 1800', as you put it? I guess Palestinians can do no wrong at all. Even when its terrorism. Terrorism, you know, whatever.

"P.S. its funny to notice that the Zionists are doing what Hitler used to do to them to the Palestinians nowadays. sad and shameful."

An astute observation, bravo! ITS EXACTLY LIKE IT! All those Israeli concentration camps, all those big ovens! Wait - if Israel has been 'GENOCIDING' the Palestinians for the last 50 years HOW COME THERE'S JUST MORE AND MORE EVERY YEAR!!!! Wait - I know - ITS A ZIONIST CONSPIRACY!!!

"(1) You cannot hold back the growing Palestinian population with apartheid policies."

You are such a big fat liar! In Israel, Arabs and Muslims have full citizenship and rights, only they don;y have to serve in the army if they don;t want to! The only place in the middle east that ISN'T APARTHEID against Jews and basically all non-Muslims is ISRAEL, GENIUS! How is it not 'Apartheid' when the official Palestinian LEADERSHIP and GRASSROOTS position is Jews are apes and pigs and need to die, and if they dare settle in the West Bank or Gaza strip they are human targets, ready to kill? When over a million Muslims live as full citizens inside Israel, you dare to say the West Bank and Gaza should be JUDENRIEN (JEW-FREE)? WOW you're so fair!

"Israel should return all the stolen land back to the original people and everyone should go back home."

OK so you mean you want to expand Jewish settlements back into the West Bank and Gaza where they were before the Arabs invaded and drove them out in 1948? Oh wait, you mean only Palestinians get to do that? NO GO, BRO

" people make this conflict so darn confusing."

Man, from the garbage you write I'm guessing you find a lot of things 'so darn confusing'...

Anonymous said...

Oy, poor Jameel is being drowned under a sea of ctrl-V!!!

For what it’s worth, you and Regavim are wrong on this issue for a number of reasons, but I think we’d be best off saving that discussion for another time.

Yellow Boy

Jameel @ The Muqata said...

YB: I guess we;ll have to agree to disagree (or discuss this another time).

If the whole point of a settlement freeze is to determine a "final negotiation status" then BOTH sides should have to adhere to it.

And by the way - are you saying the Supreme Court is also wrong -- because they ruled in favor of Regavim...

Anonymous said...

Wow... Now here's something you don't see every day on this blog: A sea of comments, chock-full of nasty, vitriolic, antisemitic Israel bashing.

For a second, I thought I was reading DovBear...

keren said...

I wanted to comment, but I do not know what happened to all the comments here.

The regavim appeal to the courts was exactly the same text as that used by Peace Now, for their appeals, just the names of the Arab village was substituted. IT was like a test case.

As for the Jews go back to middle east in the other comments.
My family came from the middle east, they were EXPELLED from another ME country after the establishment of the state of Israel and left with nothing but what they could carry.

All their wealth was left behind.

There is an internet site and a capaign about reparations from ME coutnries

http://www.forgottenrefugees.org/blog/index.php

Jameel @ The Muqata said...

Regavim's on a roll - as promised, they are continuing to use the exact same Peace Now process, against illegal Palestinian construction.

ynetnews:

The Regavim movement, and three settlements in the Maale Adumim region filed a petition to the High Court of Justice against Defense Minister Ehud Barak and the central command chief, demanding they be ordered to explain their failure to carry out demolition orders on 257 illegal homes in Kfar Adumim's jurisdiction.

The petitioners also asked the court to order the defense official to take all necessary means to prevent the population of a most and school being constructed illegally in the area.

JoeSettler said...

Funny comments, because as I've mentioned in the past, my extended family were Hebron residents and landowners until the Arab Massacre of 1929 when the family escaped through a series of miracles in what is an amazing story.

In fact, the family history goes way back before the Arabs showed up, and even though there are Arabs living in the family's Hebron homes right now - the family hasn't given up hope of getting our property back.

Anonymous said...

"CHRIS J, CHRIS J please respond to my point! Do you not understand that my point is that NO ONE HAD TAKEN ANYONE'S LAND prior to May 15, 1948, when Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Lebanon along with Palestinian paramilitary factions invaded the newly declared state of Israel."

Oh, was that your point? I thought that was covered previously, with the showing of population count. The people who lived there were the legal owners of the land. They should have been allowed to set up their own government. That is International Law, covered by UN Article 73b.

"Members of the United Nations will have or assume responsibilities for the administration of territories whose peoples have not yet attained a full measure of self-government recognize the principle that the interests of the inhabitants of these territories are paramount, and accept a sacred trust the obligation to promote to the utmost, within the systm of international peace and security established by the present Charter, the well-being of the inhabitants of these territories, and, to this end: b) in the progressive development of their free political institutions, according to the particular circumstances of each territory and its peoples and their varying stages of advancement."

That article was NOT adhered to with the establishment of the 1947 UN Partitian Plan. If it had been, there would have been no Jewish State of Israel, because the Jewish population (comprised mostly of immigrants) was vastly outnumbered by the Arab population (comprised mostly of natives).

The Arab nations that attacked the new State of Israel were therefore right in doing so, because the establishment of the State of Israel was an illegal act and an immoral act.

Chris J

avi said...

Wow, a flood of idiotic Jew baiting comments come from 1 troll. It's a complete waste of time arguing with these kinds of people, but here it goes nonetheless...

Under the Oslo Accords, the Palestinian Authority agreed that Israel will have administrative control in Area C in Judea and Samaria, and that includes zoning laws. That means that the Israeli government has the authority to enforce zoning laws in these areas by right of Israeli law, international law and internationally signed and guaranteed agreements with the Palestinian Authority. End of story.

Anonymous said...

"avi said...
Wow, a flood of idiotic Jew baiting comments come from 1 troll. It's a complete waste of time arguing with these kinds of people, but here it goes nonetheless..."

"Troll?" It's hard not to notice that people resort to name-calling when they should be listening. It's also hard not to notice that Jewish people resort to that quite often. Is that because they know that they are wrong, but don't want to admit it?

If moral ethics and legal resolutions had been followed, there never would have been an "Israeli law," because there never would have been a "State of Israel." That trumps anything that happend afterwards.

You can call me names all you want, but that won't change what's right. All that does is show the kind of person you are.

Here's my name. Why don't you see if you can figure out what it means. Here, I'll give you a hint. It's a nice Hebrew name.

Chris J

Jameel @ The Muqata said...

Chris: You quote from UN International Law, Article 73b, yet say the exact same organization ignored its own law by proposing the 1947 UN Partitian Plan.

Additionally, like it or not, Avi's point above still stands. The Palestinian Authority, which claims to be the sole representative of the Palestinians, signed the Oslo B agreement, in which all administrative authority and zoning rights in Area C are under Israel's control.

Hence, all building there must be approved (Jewish and Arab) by the Israeli Military Authority.

If Peace Now spends every waking moment evaluating the "approval" for Jewish building, then why is anything wrong with evaluating the illegality of Arab building in Area C?

The PA agreed to it.

Anonymous said...

"Chris: You quote from UN International Law, Article 73b, yet say the exact same organization ignored its own law by proposing the 1947 UN Partitian Plan."

That is correct, Jameel. The 1947 UN Partitian Plan was against the law established by the UN, and they broke their own law. That kind of thing happens all the time, which is why we have "Supreme Courts." It's unfortunate that we don't have a Supreme Court for the UN. Oh, wait a minute, we do have one, though it's not an "official" court. It's called "political concensus," and it's being ignored by the "State of Israel" as well.

If the official laws had been followed, there never would have been a "State of Israel," because the majority of the population in Palestine was Arab people. The govenment of Palestine should have therefore been established by "majority rule." That didn't happen. Instead, a minority rule was imposed on everyone that lived there, by the establishment of the "State of Israel."

Everything that happened after that is irrelevant, including the creation of the Palestinian Authority.

The population since that illegal act has grown in favor of Jewish immigration to the point of domination by Jews. The Arab communities therefore have very little say in government. Basically, what's happened there is a takeover by immigrants. That should have never been allowed to happen.

It seems as though there is no workable solution, because the only real soluion is to make everyone go back to where they came, prior to the beginning of the Zionist Invasion. Of course, that's not "workable," because most of the countries from which they came don't want them back. Another reason that it won't work is because the Jewish people think that they are the "Israel" of the Torah, and that they should stand their ground. So they don't want to go back to where they came from.

There's a lot of prophecy related to that. The outcome doesn't favor the "immigrants." They get "dashed to pieces" by the "Medes" (people of the Middle Land). When that happens, it will dwarf what Hitler did. And it's going to happen, because the Torah says so.

Chris J

Jameel @ The Muqata said...

Chris: While you claim the UN may have "broken its own law" -- it actually didn't because the Partition Plan being ratified in the UN by a majority.

That very act of ratification is exactly the essence of a "political consensus"

Israel existence was accepted by the world at the time.

Why do you say everything else is irrelevant?

At the end of the day, the UN's partition plan was the world's admission that there needs to be a Jewish State, since the world failed miserably in saving Jews and preventing the Holocaust.

Lurker said...

If Peace Now really wants to help the Palestinians, they should back off the settlements.

Peace Now has no desire whatsoever to help the Palestinians. Their aim is to screw the Jewish settlers, and to deprive the Jewish people of Judea and Samaria.

Anonymous said...

Jameel, the UN did break it's own law, when they didn't establish a government that didn't reflect a majority rule for the land of Palestine. It was their legal obligation to do so, under UN Article 73b.

The members who voted to create two states within the land of Palestine ignored that law. If they had followed that law, there would have been no need to even vote.

Instead, they let their emotions get to them, because of the holocaust. Yes, the holocaust was a very terrible event, but that should NOT have been used to justify what they did. The world would not allow that to happen today. The Jews of Germany would be allowed to return to Germany after Hitler was removed from power.

The UN's partition plan was NOT the "world's admission that there needs to be a Jewish State." It was a vote passed by nations that were (and still are) dominated by Christians, who felt sorry for the Jews. Most of Africa wasn't even allowed to vote. All of the nations in the Middle East that were allowed to vote, voted against the plan. In essense, the vote was passed by people that weren't immediately affected. And to make matters worse, the USA coerced three countries to change their votes in favor of the plan. If it hadn't been for that, the plan would have never passed. That's ironic, because it's also illegal in the USA to coerce a vote.

When you say that "Israel existence was accepted by the world at the time," you quite mistaken. The world did not accept the nation of Israel, and it still doesn't. The might of the world doesn't really constitute the world. There is still quite a lot of resistance to the nation of Israel, and that resistance is now catapulting the world into war.

It would be nice if the world didn't have to fight over the Jewish claim of rightful ownership of the "Holy Land," but it's not going to happen. The world is going to fight over it. And guess what. Those who favor the imposter Israel (that's you guys) are going to lose. That is a given. The prophets of your own people told you so.

The real "Israel" isn't supposed to gather until AFTER the natural calamities have begun to occur. There is supposed to be a horrific war before those things happen. That war is supposed to be about the control of Jerusalem. Those in control of Jerusalem, just prior to the natural calamities are supposed to get their butts handed to them.

Isaiah 28:14 Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.

Isaiah 28: 22Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I have heard from the Lord GOD of hosts a consumption, even determined upon the whole earth.

That "consumption" is a reference to the natural disasters that will kill most people. And the "scornful men" are the ones who dominate Jerusalem before the "consumption."

I'm sure that you guys would like to continue to ignore those words, but ignoring them won't help you. You might even like to claim that those words are about "someone else," but that claim won't fly, unless Jerusalem gets taken over again.

Chris J

Ben said...

Every Jew can trace his ancestry back to Israel. I can't say the same about Muslims. When it comes to a debate about whose land it is I will let history be the judge of that.

Anonymous said...

Ben, of course you can say that about Muslims, and be more accurate. The FACT is that quite a lot of Jews are converts, and don't even try to trace their ancestry back to "Israel." So you can't really say that about "Every Jew." And there is another FACT that you guys like to leave out. Your version of "history" is from the Written Torah, and you guys merely CLAIM to be the people of the twelve tribes of Israel. There is ABSOLUTELY no proof beyond your own word about that.

Chris J

Anonymous said...

Chris the prophet is quoting Isaiah!

Do you think anyone cares about your twisted anti-Zionist Torah interpretation? Are you serious?

I don't care if you have a 'nice Jewish name', so did Karl Marx. So did Jesus. You are neither. Your token status means nothing to anyone with half a brain.

"The Arab nations that attacked the new State of Israel were therefore right in doing so, because the establishment of the State of Israel was an illegal act and an immoral act."

...And thats where you're a hate monger.

Were coming to your house to burn it down and drive you into the sea because your very existence is an IMMORAL ACT, dunce.

Anonymous said...

Ouch....Did I hit a nerve? I must have, because you provided a very canned Jewish response. You resort to name-calling, instead of disputing the facts.

But then, that's all that you are capable of, since you apparently only half a brain. Isn't that hat you meant, when you said that my "token status means nothing to anyone with half a brain." Ah, that's right. It's not what you meant to say. It was just a Freudian slip. You see, you said that my name means nothing, which means that to you, it means nothing. And then you clarified that it was because you only had "half a brain."

Then you proceed to show your ignorance again, by calling me a "hate monger," just because I don't agree with you. Again, that's another canned Jewish response to anyone that doesn't buy in to their BS.

For the record, I don't hate anyone. But I would defend myself from anyone who came to burn my house down; unless I built my house on someone else's land and it was the land owner who was burning it.

Thanks for the laughs.

Oh yeah, one more thing. They're not going to drive you guys into the sea. They are going to starve you, cut off your water supply, burn you, and then kill you when you try to run away. That's from Ezekiel, but you gotta read the whole book to get that, so I won't paste it here.

Aren't you guys supposed to be studying up on that? Or do you do like the Christians and skip past the parts that you don't agree with?

Chris J

annie said...

Who is this Chris J who presumes to tell Jews how and what to believe of their very own Torah?

Anonymous said...

A Jewish nightmare come true. What does it matter WHO I am. I am.

Why doesn't anyone want to discuss the issues that I have presented?

Is that because you guys know that what you are doing is wrong, but just can't admit it?

Do you think that if you can change what the prophets told you?

And who told you that it was your "very own Torah?" Was the Torah not meant for the world?

Of course the Torah was meant for the world.

There's a man who is mentioned by Isaiah, who would not know God, yet he would lead humanity to peace. He is not of the Jewish faith, or any other faith. Yet he shows up as a leader of humanity. He is the "anointed of God."

Yes, we all know that you think he has come and gone. But are you sure enough about that to bet your life, and the lives of your children on that?

Let's see.....oh darn.......what was his name?

Chris J

johnmd said...

The basic rule of war applies. To the victor goes all the spoils, all gold and property and slaves. This rule goes back to the beginning of time. The geography of the USA , USSR and China are made up of the spoils of war but they will never call it that.

Renegade said...

@chris:

let's say for argument's sake that we really are the real Jews, would that mean the land of Israel does belong to us?

tafka pp said...

Hilarious- how the hell did you get onto Yahoo Front Page?

- and, for the record, I agree with Yellow Boy. Shocker!

Anonymous said...

Bak @ Renegade
Who even remotely said that you aren’t real Jews? Why didn’t you ask if the land belonged to you if you were the real Israel?
But, the answer to your question as you asked is no. You stole most of the land that you guys live on, just like you stole your namesake.

Chris J

annie said...

Chris J has outed himself as a True Original Supercessionist Anti-Semite who believes that a) the Jews are not the real Jews; b) the Christians are now the real Jews; c) ergo the Land of Israel belongs to the, erm, Arabs? How did that come about? Shouldn't it belong to the Christians.

/mind boggling at the distorted mind-twisting going on in Chris's twisted distorted boggled mind. He's obviously been reading too much of his "holy Torah" and not enough of ours.

Anonymous said...

Bak @ Anne,
Are you capable of reading? If so, how could you draw those conclusions? Jews are Jews and Christians are Christians. Both of them are in trouble, because they tried to slant the prophecies in their favor. Neither of them are the ones they claim to be. But you can find them both in the prophecies, under various other names. You can even find them here.

Isaiah 44:5. This one shall say, "I am the Lord's," and this one shall call himself by the name of Jacob, and this one shall write [with] his hand, "To the Lord," and adopt the name Israel.

It’s unfortunate for them that they don’t know that adopting a name doesn’t mean that they are the people of that name. It just means that they want to be that people. It is that desire to be that people that causes them to arrogantly make the claim that they are, even though there is quite a lot of evidence that they are not. One piece of evidence is that the ones, who make the claim to be Israel, aren’t the ones who are. But somebody had to do it.

The “Land of Israel,” as you call it, belongs to those who rightfully possessed it before the illegal declaration of the “state of Israel’s” sovereignty. You can’t just take land that no one is living on and build houses on it and then call it your own. Yet that is what the nation of Israel began doing, and is still doing. The entire world is beginning to turn on you, because of that. But don’t take that to mean that you are the true Israel, even though the entire world will be against the true Israel. Yes, the world will turn on Israel, but that only happens after Ephraim is no longer a people, and the true Israel is drawn from the nations. You are warned here.

Isaiah 28:1. Woe is to the crown of the pride of the drunkards of Ephraim and the young fruit of an inferior fig is the position of his glory, which is at the end of a valley of fatness, crushed by wine.

Your pride is preventing you from realizing that this is a warning to you. You are the “crown of pride.” Do you know what that means? “Crown” is the uppermost part of something. What people have the uppermost pride? Would that be the ones who claim to be Israel? Of course it is. You can find more evidence of who those people are in this line.

Isaiah 28:14. Therefore, listen to the word of the Lord, men of scorn, allegorists of this people who are in Jerusalem.

That’s from “your” “holy Torah.” What is it that you don’t understand? You guys are alleging that you are the rightful owners of Jerusalem. You are the “allegorists.” You are further described here, in the next line.

Isaiah 28:15. For you said, "We have made a treaty with death, and with the grave we have set a limit; when an overflowing scourge passes, it shall not come upon us, for we have made lies our shelter and in falsehood have we hidden ourselves.

Those of you who don’t realize it are going to suffer.

Isaiah 28: 18.And your treaty with death shall be nullified, and your limit with the grave shall not endure; when an overflowing scourge passes, you shall be trampled by it.

That “overflowing scourge” gets mentioned again.

Isaiah 28:22.And now, do not scorn, lest your pains become strong, for a complete destruction have I heard from the Lord God of Hosts upon the entire land.

That “complete destruction,” “upon the entire land” hasn’t happened yet. That’s how we know for sure that you are in trouble. We know that for sure, because this chapter from Isaiah is warning the people who are in control of Jerusalem prior to that “complete destruction.” That would be the “state of Israel.”

Isaiah 28:19. When it passes, it shall take you, for every morning it shall pass, by day and by night, and it shall be only terror to understand the message.

The longer you wait to “understand the message,” the worse the “terror” becomes.

Chris J

annie said...

Oh Chris, give it up already. You're claiming that you are the true Jews and I know that we are the Jews. If you so want to be Jewish come on over and study sincerely and convert. If you dare. But please, stop missionizing. You're convincing nobody but yourself.

And now I have to go and start preparing for the Jewish (not Christian) New Year which is upon us.

Anonymous said...

Bak @ annie,
You obviously have an emotional issue. There is no way that I would want to be a Jew. You can have that to yourself. Have fun with your Jewish (not Christian) New Year. And feel free to ignore the scripture. It’s your doom, not mine.

Chris J

Jameel @ The Muqata said...

Chris J: ok, we're doomed. happy?

Go lurk elsewhere.

It must kill you that the wandering Jew has returned home and is vibrantly rebuilding the Jewish homeland. No wonder you have so much anger.

Your comments from now on will be deleted.

Anonymous said...

Nah, it doesn't kill me (lol), it kills you. What is it that you don't understand? There's a reason for the "wandering Jews." You defiled your father's bed, so you move to the couch, Reuben.

Go ahead, Jew boy. Delete my comments (lol). That's one way to win a debate. Silence the opposition (lol).

Chris J

Jameel @ The Muqata said...

Right. The modern state of Israel defies the wandering Jew and your theology. Hence you anger.

You aren't opposition. Just a proselytizing annoyance, which is out of bounds for this blog.

Bye!

Anonymous said...

the arrogance of the invaders to palestine are being watched from above. One day the real authority will begin to tear down all israeli illegal buildings and that means all of them. The entire country will once again disappear and the land will be returned to its rightful owners and not some religious whackos who have a dreamed up god and false religion. Moses should be dug up and tortured for eternity for what he has done to humanity. The more israel builds, by experience they should know this is more to have fun tearing down. But the world awaits on a third temple and installed ruling copy-cat dynasty before the fun begins and the collapse of America so israel will once again be all alone and on their own. The future of humanity is addressable germ warfare. Every nation of the world is working hard and fast at seeing who can create the population solutions first. Mankind is doomed by his own hand. Stupid humans! Long live Egypt!

Jameel @ The Muqata said...

Anonymous: *yawn* are you done yet?

We've survived 2000 years -- we'll survive your stupidity as well.

Anonymous said...
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