Friday, June 26, 2009

What does Natural Growth mean to you?

I guess sometimes its easier to keep your head in the sand than accept the plain and simple meaning of what is being told to your face.

A perfect example is in a recent Q&A session with Obama's envoy George Mitchell (a low level functionary hack, I presume).

As everyone knows, Obama has been demanding a stop (destruction) to both Settlements as well as an end to 'Natural Growth' (among other demands).

With the English language being stretched and warped so manipulatively by the Obama administration, some reporters have tried to pin down what exactly does 'Natural Growth' mean.

What exactly does the Obama administration see that they are trying to stop?

Here is an except from that Q&A session.

The only question the reporter didn't ask, is if the administration's preferred method was gas or drowning.

(Relevant excerpts from the Q&A)

QUESTION: -- including natural growth. And secondly, can you give us just a definition of what the United States considers natural growth? What does that phrase mean in your mind?

Well, what does natural growth mean? I mean, can you just use it in--

MR. MITCHELL: I’m constantly asked by editors, you know, please give a plain explanation of what natural growth is.

Well, of course, one of the issues is that there is no universally used and accepted definition. The most common definition is by the number of births, but there are many variations of that. I’ve had numerous discussions with many Israeli and other officials, and there are almost as many definitions as there are people speaking. But I think the most commonly used measure is the number of births.


QUESTION: When you say the most common definition is births, are you saying –

MR. MITCHELL: The one that – the most commonly used in conversations with me.

QUESTION: I see. So when the U.S. say no natural growth

MR. MITCHELL: Right.

QUESTION: -- is that what it’s saying is the definition?

MR. MITCHELL: We’re engaged in discussions on a wide range of issues. And different people have different interpretations of different phrases. And we listen to all points of view. We listen to every aspect of every discussion, and we’re trying to reach an agreement and understanding that helps us move the process forward. And I think I wouldn’t want to get beyond that.
"But I think the most commonly used measure is the number of births."

Has he made the Obama position clear enough?


On other relevant issues of the day:

Dov Bear and other far left bloggers publicly lambasted and attacked Jameel and I for a post where we reported that on Israeli Radio they said the Obama administration will be announcing a major peace initiative in July.

The reports indicated that the initiative will include removing Jewish sovereignty over Jerusalem.

But Dov Bear and others misread the post and report (by accident I'm sure) to mean that Obama would announce his initiative in his Cairo speech - which is not what we said, and obviously not what happened.


Funny how life works, because in this same Q&A session, as it happens, that exact question came up for Mitchell.

Read it for yourself:

QUESTION: Samir Nader with Radio Sawa. Mr. Solana of the EU, he stated a few days ago that the U.S. will announce its vision for peace in the Middle East before the end of July. Is this true?
And if so, will you do it now?

MR. MITCHELL: Is this before the end of July? As I said earlier, we’re going to move as promptly as possible. And in my opening remarks, I said that we hope to conclude the discussions in which we’re now engaged very soon. To me, it’s a matter of weeks, not many months, so he may well be right.
I don't want an apology from Dov Bear for being wrong again.


Dov Bear, I am not interested in fighting with you about all this - on what the grammatical structure of Obama's statements mean. I am sure we will continue to disagree on that.

The Obama administration is not the Bush administration which had tacit agreements with Israel in place and where George Bush personally had respect for Israel (even if Condi and his other advisers didn't). Stop trying to compare them. It's irrelevant to what is at hand.

The issues is the present and the future.

At some point, Obama will begin to transform words into actions (and it has actually already begun). I just want to know that you will be on our side if and when push comes to shove.

-----

Everyone, please wish a Refuah Shleimah to Jameel who has been out of commission this past week. Doctors have ruled out Swine Flu (seriously), but he is ill with a high temperature and is unable to blog or much of anything else. He appreciates all your good wishes.

Shabbat Shalom.

Wherever I am, my blog turns towards Eretz Yisrael טובה הארץ מאד מאד

20 comments:

Donald said...

Nice Blog, its a very good conversation, it tells the reality of USA. Now they should be wake up!!!!

Anonymous said...

The Mishaberach should be for "Jameel ben Fatma"?

annie said...

Refuah shlema to Jameel. My daughter has also been ill with the same thing but has now recovered b"H.

Daniel said...

Joe, Jameel; I wish you two blogged as often as DB. Your blogs are better.
If you have ever read'Darkness at Noon", DB is the Rubashov character. It would be too much gotterdammarung for hi to admit that Obama is bad.

Jack said...

The relationship is going to be further strained before it improves.

Jack said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Joe, on May 20 Jameel wrote:

"They reported that a new Obama Middle East Peace Initiative was going to be announced within the next few weeks"

I concede that neither you nor Jameel specifically said this would happen in Cairo, though the post appears just a few weeks before the speech. Given the anticipation of the speech which took place just a few weeks later, I can perhaps be forgiven for assuming this is what Jameel meant.

Indeed on the same day, May 20, writing about the same GT report YWN "reported":

On June 4th, US President Barak Obama hopes to earn his place in the annals of history, delivering a major address from Cairo in which he will hope to mend fences with the Muslim world, unfolding his master plan, his vision if you will for a comprehensive Mideast peace that will result in diplomatic relations between the Arab world and Israel.

So you see, it was not unthinkable on May 20 when your post appeared that Obama would announce this plan in Cairo.

The DovBEar post in which I "lambasted" you, doesn't really lambast you at all. In it, I refer generally to RW bloggers who made incorrect assertions about the Cairo speech, and though I suggested you made them, too, (an error: see below) I also called you "honest." Indeed, I beleive my respect and admiration for both you and Jameel is well known.

The post does "lambasts" YWN, who did make specific, incorrect predictions about Cairo. I have already told you in private email, I should have done a better job of making it clear that the Muqata and YWN did NOT do the same things. In other words, my post conflated your errors with the errors made by YWN which was wrong, and unfair. I have already apologized to you for that. I should not have made it seem - even accidently - like you and YWN were equally guilty of the same things.

However, I do not regret criticizing you and Jameel for making assertions about Obama and his plans that have not (yet) turned out to be true, and for spreading fear uneccessarily. I still believe you did on more than one occasion. One example is this poem, which you published on May 20and still have not recanted:

Today is the day Obama revealed his plans to rip Jerusalem away from Israel.

Today is the day Obama revealed his plans to redivide the city.

Today is the day Obama revealed his plans to embed foreign troops into Jerusalem.

Today is the day Obama revealed his plans to flood Israel with enemy citizens.


As you know, to date NOT ONE of those things have been "revealed" by Obama or anyone else, and you owe it your readers to say so.

I'm happy to join any fight for Israel's safety and security, but I won't be drawn into a battle against things that have not (yet) happened and have (yet) not been said.

Best wishes to Jameel for a Refuah Shlayma.

Shabbat Shalom.

DovBear

Neshama said...

Joe Settler,
that 'natural growth' comment so irked me that I prepared a couple days ago a post that will appear BE"H Motzei Shabbos. Please visit "They make smooth their tongue .. against Your annointed ..." and read my rather harsh comparisons, brought about by articles I have come across.

I have stopped reading those "far left bloggers" who have lost contact with their pintele yid, and 'cannot see the forest for the trees'. These poor neshomas need alot of help to get out of the box they are trapped within. Enough said here.

PS The poem is great and true. It has not happened YET because the Congress and Senate both told the Prez to 'cool it with the Jews'. See CONGRESS SENDS CAUTIONARY LETTER TO OBAMA and MASSIVE MAJORITY OF SENATE SEND OBAMA CAUTIONARY LETTER at http://habayitah.blogspot.com/2009/06/much-ado-about-settlements-aka-non_17.html

Shabbat Shalom

Anonymous said...

FROM CAROL HERMAN

First, American Jews don't encounter the Israeli problem of "settlements." To each and every American Jew, who wants to "add on" to an existing home; there's always the local government. That's the City. Sometimes? It's easy to get permits. And, sometimes, not. But it is a local issue.

So how come Obama is able to use this one to whip Israeli Jews? And, yes. Obama has every intention of keeping his whip going. (He likes the feeling. It makes him feel powerful.) And, to Obama, there is no down side.

It is going to be up to Bibi to deal with the political ramifications. JAW JAW, instead of WAR. WAR. (Diplomats are used to JAWING TOPICS TO DEATH. And, kissing babies.)

The best thing I read, by the way about "a non-military Palestinian State, was tried before. Embedded in the Treaty of Versailles. After WW1. It wasn't a solution that worked at all. The non-military approach by the Germans wasn't stopped until Hitler FAILED.

True, Jews have Holocaust museums to remind the living that 6 million Jews died. And, plenty of others were starved and tortured. Hidden from view, though, is the utter failures the germans, themselves, faced. They buried much more. And, Europe, today, is quite different because changes swept through, following the Allied Victory.

I hae no idea how Bibi will handle Obama. Nor do I know if Obama's teleprompter slips; and he won't be remembered as a skillful user of this particular media form. (So far? There hasn't been one speech that gives you a single line worthy of "I had a dream." He's just an academic. Possibly, highly over-rated.

While in America, right now, all the oxygen has been sucked out of all the "well laid plans" to push Israel around. You don't think so? Then, perhaps you haven't heard that Michael Jackson is dead?

Oh, and AMerica is just at the beginning of a severe Depression; where we won't see daylight for ten years. People, of course, hope.

Experience, however, is what's gonna make it into the history books.

Anonymous said...

FROM CAROL HERMAN

Is it only me? I'm reminded of that wonderful Jewish story. Where a rabbi in Russia was threatened with death by the Czar. And, when asked if he had any wish he wanted, before he was killed, the rabbi said, "I'd like to teach your horse to speak."

Ah, said the Czar. How long would it take you to teach the horse to speak? A year. Answered the rabbi. In that case said the Czar, I'll commute your sentence for one year.

Oh, how the students of the rabbi cried. But "why cry" asked the rabbi? Don't you see I'm alive? And, who knows? In one year's time, the Czar may be dead. Or the horse may die.

In other words, ALL diplomacy is a dance where no one actually accmomplishes anything. The fine wine, however, is very good. And, there won't be solutions coming from this stuff. Not any time soon.

While, who knows? A year from now? The gloss may be off the teleprompter's rose? You see him winning in the stances he has taken so far?

I am reminded that God works in strange ways. Jimmy Carter never saw God's hand slamming down. But didn't it?

How come those who think they can hurt Israel, never see what follows?

You think Bibi is a babe in the woods?

You think Livni's stock is rising?

Obama may yet discover one of the political realities. When times get bad, people get angry. Dubya's now out of view.

Up ahead? What if it isn't all smooth sailing for the "smooth talker?"

If I were a democrap, and I am not voting for them; what happens when others leave the tent?

Back to Jimmy Carter. Came 1980, and Ronald Reagan picked up the Jewish votes. And, up ahead? There will be living examples of elderly who are not "just old and confused." They'll remember.

And, the teleprompter? It might exit on the legs of vaudeville?

No one knows.

SJ said...

Regardless of the settlement issue, I heard a while back the Negev can use some development. I'm not trying to be sarcastic here.

Carol_Herman said...

FROM CAROL HERMAN

What if the "settlement issue" is one giant misstep for Obama?

What earth is under his feet, on this one? Births? Go ahead. Make my day. Most American Blacks think the only reason we have abortion legalized, and paid for by the government, is to cap "natural growth." I kid you not!

Obama is an ACADEMIC. He has no idea what real people are like. Heck, he could sit for 20 years and hear sermons every Sunday that claimed the Jews were the source of evil. He said? His big ears didn't catch the "gist." He only went to church for the music. (Whatever.)

People in AMerica didn't really get fooled. They had a choice. Between the brain dead McCain; and the Black guy, who was considered a star ... like Mel Brooks made a Black guy a star in Blazing Saddles.

Today? There's buyer's remorse. Tea parties. And, Obama's slippery paws all over his socialistic agenda. Mr. Teleprompter could be heading for a loss of his coattails. (Which is exactly what frightens politicians.)

In Israel? Well, Livni carries some of these problems, too. But no one wants to use the word "failure" yet. For that? Either Arik Sharon dies first, or Kadima loses seats in the next election.

But go ahead. Hang on for the news. History repeats itself in cycles.

JoeSettler said...

If you read the whole post it continues:

Globes' correspondent 20 May 09 12:16

“IDF Radio" (Galei Zahal) said that international and Arab media sources are reporting developing parts of US President Barack Obama's speech scheduled for early July, in which he will lay out his peace plan for the Middle East.


Which jives with Mitchell's statements.

Last week the authorized spokesman for Clinton made it absolutely clear that Jerusalem is on the table (as did the US consulate in Jerusalem a few weeks earlier).

But most importantly, and in all sincerity (regardless of everything else we disagree on), I am glad to hear that we will be able to count on you when push comes to shove - because that is all that matters.

Doonesbury said...

Dov Bear is not a serious person.

DOn't wase your time responding to his drivel.

Your posts are interesting in their own right w/o being dragged down into the childish nature of DB and co.

if you feel a need to respond to him do so on his site. But truth be told that is also a bracha l'vatolo as most of his readers are just hate filled children like him who abhor all rational thought.

Thanks

Olah Chadasha said...

Oh my goodness, Refuah Shelaimah to Jameel. Please keep us updated.
-OC

JoeSettler said...

He's currently undergoing extensive tests and blood work to determine when he will return to blogging (and work).

But having spoken to him again this morning, it was the first time in close to a week he wasn't delirious, and even suggested ideas for posts.

Anonymous said...

But truth be told that is also a bracha l'vatolo as most of his readers are just hate filled children like him who abhor all rational thought.


I can't speak for the other readers, but I don't hate anyone or anything, and its my insistance on rational thought that most often gets me into trouble with RW Jews. I have literally thousands of posts in which this is all spelled out clearly.

Nasty slander of my entire blogging community doesn't make you seem like much of a serious person in your own right, Mister Doonsbury.

I refer you to the case of Kettle vs. Pot.

DovBear

Anonymous said...

Joe, I don't know why you think the assistance of a blog, let alone an anonymous blog, is worth anything, but I'm glad to assure you that I will criticize Obama is any of the things you fear actually come to pass.

They haven't yet, and that's worth noting.

DovBear

ytba said...

B"H

"What does Natural Growth mean to you?"

The difference between survival, and, G-d forbid, it's opposite.

Yochanan said...

I don't know, but this sounds like the topic for a college application essay.

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