Wednesday, November 26, 2008

Supporting Israelies at all Costs?

This post could have been called "The Magiya Li (מגיע לי) Syndrome" -- the, "I deserve it" post.

One of the unfortunate character traits you encounter in Israel is the "magiya li" syndrome, "It's coming to me, and I deserve it". Not responsibility for one's actions, but rather, the exact opposite!

This could include:

I deserve a management job, regardless of my qualifications.
I deserve my driver's license, despite having failed my drivers test 5 times.
I deserve to take off "sick days" from work, even if I'm not sick, because I "work hard"

There are literally thousands of examples like this that I see all the time (feel free to provide your own)

The latest one that smacked us all in the face is the story of 2 Israelis who were caught, convicted of drug smuggling in Thailand, and were sentenced to death.

Why do they not deserve the death penalty? "Magiya Lahem Yoter?" -- the drug dealers deserve better and NOT the death penalty? They deserve that the State of Israel go to bat for them, and Israel's foreign minister, Tzippi Livni personally intervene on their behalf?
"Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni has become personally involved in the case of the two Israelis who were convicted of drug trafficking in Thailand and sentenced to death.

Her office said Tuesday that "Livni will act on all levels and if necessary she will even speak to the king to clarify our stance to the Thais."

Livni has announced that she plans to speak to her Thai counterpart after he returns from a visit to Peru. Her office said there was time to appeal the sentence, though no progress had been made yet." (YNET)
The 2 poster boys, Vladimir Akronik, 34, and Alon Mahluf, 37, were arrested one year ago for possession of 23,000 ecstasy pills.

The Mahluf family turned to Livni for help. "We'll turn this country upside down to get him out of there as soon as possible. He is an Israeli, a Jew, born here. The State has to take care of him. When I visited him in prison it was filthy. He has a room but he told me the food is horrible, there is no shower and no hot water,"

At what point do you say, "these are Jews and they don't deserve the death penalty" and when do you say, "these are drug dealer -- the vermin of the earth, let them rot. Why do they deserve any special treatment?"

When I visited Thailand for business a decade ago, there was a very clear bold statement on the landing card I had to fill out: "Drug Traffickers will be Executed" (same as in Manila)

You can't miss it on the landing card so what were these people thinking? (I know, drug dealers don't think that much to begin with)



Wherever I am, my blog turns towards Eretz Yisrael טובה הארץ מאד מאד

19 comments:

Commenter Abbi said...

I just hope no one is planning trading any Palestinian prisoners for them. That would really bring this country to a new low.

Rafi G said...

I was thinking the same thing, Jameel. Even more - they have brought, and will have brought, the death sentence to many kids and pther people who have bought, or will have bought, the drugs supplied by these people.

So you can say they are Jews and deserve our support and do not deserve the death penalty, but on the other hand - why not when that is what they were meting out to their clients....

Lurker said...

The Mahluf family turned to Livni for help. "We'll turn this country upside down to get him out of there as soon as possible. He is an Israeli, a Jew, born here. The State has to take care of him. When I visited him in prison it was filthy. He has a room but he told me the food is horrible, there is no shower and no hot water."

The destroyed lives of the people who get addicted to Mahluf's drugs are pretty horrible, too. Who's going to take care of them?

But then, who cares about them?

I not sure if there's good food, showers, and hot water in hell, either. That's where drug pushers like Mahluf belong.

Lurker said...

cAbbi: I just hope no one is planning trading any Palestinian prisoners for them. That would really bring this country to a new low.

Unfortunately, it wouldn't be the first time Israel has released terrorists in order to free a drug trafficker...

triLcat said...

the food is horrible?! The FOOD is horrible?!
these guys really don't live on the same planet.

I don't like the idea of death penalty for drug trafficking, but we can't bail out every law-breaking idiot in the world just because he had a Jewish mother.

Lurker said...

triLcat: I don't like the idea of death penalty for drug trafficking...

The death penalty for drug trafficking saves lives. With such a deterrent, the number of people dying every day because of drugs would be much lower.

It's actually a very humanitarian policy from that perspective.

triLcat said...

I didn't say it's wrong. I said I don't *like* it.

Risa said...

#1! Why doesn't Livni and the rest of the clowns do something about Pollard first.

2. This is not a case of of 'oops' how did those pills get in my bag. These guys are criminals. Why should our FM waste time on this?

3.Didn't we get the Americans to let Zev Rosenshtein serve his sentence here instead of in the US? Maybe we could give them life imprisonment in our jail? Not that I think it's worth the effort.

Jameel @ The Muqata said...

but we can't bail out every law-breaking idiot in the world just because he had a Jewish mother.

We did it for Tennebaum, and Tzippi Livni's doing it for these vermin as well.

Abbi: We release terrorists as "gestures of good faith" for politicians to look like their "progressing" the "peace process"m even though the IDF and Shabak warn that the terrorists will return to terror the second they are released.

I think that's the lowest you can go.

Especially since over 70% of the released terrorists go back to their old ways.

yitz.. said...

are we forgetting the mitzwah of pidyon shvuyim?

i mean, first, you free gilad shalit and then jonathon polard or vice versa..

but these are still jews being held by a foreign nation for a crime they probably committed, but do we know that for sure????

are we allowed to let the judgement of a foreign people kill a Jew, halachically?

Jameel @ The Muqata said...

Trilcat: It's a tough call because on the one hand, executing drug dealers means they are gone for good.

On the other hand, keeping them in jail with life sentences means that the taxes of those who's relatives and friends were killed themselves by addiction (resulting from the trafficker) -- will be the ones funding the food and board (and hot showers) in the jails.

Jameel @ The Muqata said...

Yitz: Does pidyon shvuyim apply to people lawfully convicted of crimes?

Pollard paid his price to society in the US...Shalit was kidnapped, which was the classical case of pidyon shivuyim.

How much rachmanus do we need to have on drug dealers who kill people through addiction?

Lakewood Falling Down said...

Didn't Rav Kook OBM visit even the lowliest of prisoners? Does Dina Demalchusai Dina apply to the dealers? I really don't think we should let them be executed. I much prefer public floggings. There's nothing like a good old fashioned beat down. Of course, they may say since they are Israeli’s, they don’t deserve it.

Jameel @ The Muqata said...

Lakewood: Lowliest of prisoners? I don't know....perhaps you meant R' Arieh Levin? I want to re-read "A Tzaddik in Our Time" and see.

However, those prisoners were mostly those who fought against the British...not drug dealer trash.

Seriously, what were they expecting? Are we advocating that people can not take any responsibility for their actions?

Fern Chasida said...

Good ol' Israeli chutzpah at work. Yes I was going to smuggle 23,000 ecstasy pills into Israel to illegally sell and make a "killing" (pun intended) but now that I've been caught, I'll cry to mommy to get someone to bail me out. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

Jameel @ The Muqata said...

Fern: Its only 23,000 ecstasy pills.

Its not like you gave 40,000 rifles and millions of bullets to terrorists.

Lakewood Falling Down said...

Jameel, I took my quote from the book "An Angel Among Men". It does indeed seem to express the idea that no matter how low a Jew got, Rav Kook OBM was insistant on loving them, even visiting them to inspire teshuvah. I don't ask questions from Rav Kook OMB, he was to much of a Gadol for me to understand his motives. I just respect him.
As far as the drug dealers, I'm curious weather LeHalach if we have an obligation to save them from death, (pidyan shevuim?). Even with my new found Tzioni feelings, I'm having difficulty with the state taking action rather then Jews as a whole. I do feel conflicted.

Lurker said...

yitz..: are we forgetting the mitzwah of pidyon shvuyim?

I believe that the mitzva of pidyon shevuyim applies to Jews who were taken captive on account of their being Jews. E.g., Israeli prisoners of war, Jews imprisisoned as part of antisemitic persecution, Jews held for ransom in the hopes that the Jewish community will pay. It does not apply to criminals who happen to be Jewish, and were tried in a court of law that did not discriminate against them on account of their Jewishness.

Anonymous said...

There are a bunch of Israeli citizens held hostage at Trident hotel.

http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/video/video_live.aspx?id=0

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