Wednesday, October 18, 2006

MK Oron Responds to Muqata Readers...

OK, my posting from yesterday has been verified by MK Chaim Oron (Meretz) himself.

I'd like to thank those of you who wrote to MK Oron (or called, even if his staff laughed you -- aren't Meretz staffers nice?), and to those of you who linked to this story. (here, here, and here)

One of our esteemed Muqata readers actually received a reply from MK Oron... At first, I was impressed, but have now learned that it's a form letter, since more than one Muqata reader has received the same one.

Translation is as follows:


I welcome your letter to me.

Due to the many instances in which different religious groups in Israel try to cause minors to be "chozer biteshuva" [return to religion], either through activities, or the distribution of materials that contain threats within schools, I have proposed to outlaw all direct or indirect activities from organizations like those, that try to cause minors to return to religion.

My proposal applies to attempts to convince minors, who normally have less developed faith and opinions than those of an adult -- and attempts to convince them to change from a secular person to a religious person; a transformation that should only occur based on self-reflection and without any pressure or external enticements.

I understand that you disagree with my viewpoint, and therefore, "[every] person in his own faith shall live"


Chaim (Jomas) Oron

Here's the original email text:

שלום רב,

קיבלתי בתודה את פנייתך.

נוכח התרבותם של מקרים בהם גופים דתיים שונים בישראל המשדלים קטינים לחזור בתשובה, בין היתר באמצעות פעילות והפצת חומר הכולל איומים בבתי ספר, הצעתי לאסור פעולות ישירות או עקיפות של מי שפועל מטעם גופים כאלה במטרה לשדל קטינים לחזור בתשובה. הצעתי מתייחסת לשידול קטין, שבדרך כלל דעותיו ואמונותיו פחות מגובשות משל אדם בוגר, לשנות את אמונתו ולהפוך מאדם חילוני לדתי, דבר שמן הראוי שישקול בינו לבין עצמו ללא כל לחץ או פיתויים חיצוניים.

אני מבין שאתה לא מסכים עם דעתי זו ולכן איש איש באמונתו יחיה.

חיים (ג'ומס) אורון

There you have it. In his own words. I wonder if MK Oron would feel the same way about Israeli Moslem institutions that attempt to make secular Israeli Arabs, more religious...

PS; TAFKAPP -- This is great investigative Muqata reporting, not some wannabe news publication like HaAretz...

Wherever I am, my blog turns towards Eretz Yisrael


Anonymous said...

What Chutzpa! Especially with what R Menken wrote about Meretz supporting the orginizations that help 15 year old charedim leave their faith!

After receiving the form letter, I wrote back to Oron, but I received no more correspondence from his end. :)

Anonymous said...

Oron does have a good point about that people shouldn't be too pressured and it should be their choice, but they still need to know info. about being observant so they can decide.

Akiva said...

Of course, forceable baptisms are ok (so there's a law against it, it's not enforced). Jewish girls who made bad choices being trapped in Arab towns is ok.


bec said...

absolutely appalling, disgusting, shameful...i could go on, but i think i've adequately made my point.

tafka PP said...

Jameel. I wasn't saying I didn't think the post was true: I merely expressed my reservations about the reliablity of Scoop as a news source. I know some of the people who write for that "source", and as such, still hold said reservations.

kasamba said...

Is this for real???

Anonymous said...

The guy is a ....never mind

Anonymous said...

oh and my legal disclaimer: I am not in anyway advocating that self hating jews commit suicide out of hate for themselfs.. what they choose to do to themselfs is their business... just dont hit me on the way down ;)

aight that should keep me outta jail for uhh "advocating suicide"?

Pinchas Floyd said...


just wow.

Happy Huband said...


BTA said...

This is absolutely sensible legislation.

Would you not agree that Mormons should not be allowed to proslytize to minors? Or Scientologists? or how about atheists/humanists preaching to charedi kids?

Well, as far as this elected (mind you) official is concerned, orthodox judaism is no better than those listed above.

He is protecting innocents from coercion. And, anyone who knows anything about BT yeshivas in Israel, knows that even young adults are easily taken in by the coercive tactics of kiruv "professionals".

Be slightly objective for once.

OJ is not demonstrably true. In fact, much of it is demonstrably false. It's a good thing someone is protecting children in Israel. We all know from metziza baal peh to outright pedophiliac Rabbis, the orthodox don't do a very good job of policing their own.

Jameel @ The Muqata said...

Be slightly objective for once.

OK, I'm trying to be objective.

This law prevents schools from teaching any religious education whatsoever.

This law prhobits you from putting teffilin on anyone at the kotel, or even requiring a kippa at the kotel. (since by requiring a kipa, it could cause someone to THINK about the whole concept, and the law doesn't want anyone G-d forbid to perhpas become slightly MORE religious.

To show you how rediculous the law is -- the wording of the law doesn't even define "chazara biteshuva" -- meaning that even if a person adopts ONE more mitzva as a result of a conversation with someone, then that's a possible criminal offense.

Make no mistake -- that's the entire point of the law. And yet, the other way around; convinging religious minors to adopt a secular lifestyle is totally OK to MK Oron.

He doesn't have anyone's welfare in mind (like you mistakenly think), just trying to further his policy of secualr coercision.

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