Monday, December 19, 2011

What would Israel's Liberal Left Sacrifice for Peace?

Israel's liberal-left is constantly stating we need to make "sacrifices" for peace. At least stating "sacrifice" implies taking away something of value, of something near and dear to us...such as land. Netanyahu has gone farther and stated "painful" concessions...(meaning even more land, and uprooting Jewish communities).

The Palestinians don't only hate the Zionist entity of Israel because of "the occupation", but they also hate the secular aspects of Zionism. The original Zionist pioneers, men and women dancing the hora on a kibbutz (while wearing shorts) infuriated the religious sensibilities of Islam, and they viewed secular Zionism with disgust.

I wonder if Israel's liberal-left would be willing to make a sacrifice for peace, in that they would need to adopt a more modest-dress lifestyle, in public. Would this far-reaching attack on one's personal space be an acceptable "price for peace"?

Just a thought.

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Anonymous said...

You should get this thought posted in Ha'aretz somewhere and see the reaction.

Critically Observant Jew said...

Wait a second, what did The Left sacrifice for peace so far that they actually value?

neshama said...

I like your turn of the screw in this one. Keep it up.

Anonymous said...

Is saying something so silly an attempt to alienate the two readers you have left who are not members of Likud or further right (I must assume of course that there is another centrist reader still left, and I only read because I've known you for over 40 yrs)?
What on G-d's earth gave you the idea that Palestinians hate Israelis because of how they dress or because of their liberal ideals?
Are you projecting your own sentiments on a population that pre 1990 was mostly secular itself, and still is to a large degree? And even if that stat is not 100% accurate, do you really believe Palestinians respect modestly dressed Israelis more?
Wake up, Dude. I think you drank too much of the Kool Aid (a metaphor, since it's treif, treif, treif).

Jameel @ The Muqata said...

Anonymous 10:41 PM:

Do you really have zero knowledge of the early Zionist movement and the reasons the local Arabs disliked Zionism?

"The Jews have changed the life of Palestine in such a way that it must inevitably lead to the destruction of our race. We are not accustomed to this haste and speed, and therefore we are continually being driven into the background. They have also spread here their customs and usages which are opposed to our religion and to our whole way of life. Above all, our youth is being morally shattered. The Jewish girls who run around in shorts demoralize our youth by their mere presence...It is not a matter of climatic conditions, but of tradition. And it is dangerous, so radical, almost revolutionary, to bring 'the other world' before the eyes of the youth. Please don't forget that our generation is the first that no longer lives in the desert...Now there suddenly appears the town as if growing out of the earth, with all its distractions and pretended beauties, and finds an Arabic youth which is not prepared for it and which cannot distinguish the good from the evil."

That's no less than Amin el-Husseini speaking to historian Ladislas Farago in 1936. The quote (actually interrupted with comments) appears in Farago's book "Palestine at the Crossroads", published in 1937. As an aside, in one of Anne Frank's last entries she wrote that the next book she intended to read was that same book.

So, having easily established that secular Zionism at its onset in the early 1900's was morally offensive to the local Arab population, I posed a hypothetical question whether "peace" was worth "sacrificing" a less modest lifestyle than accepted by Islam.

More to the point, Yair Lapid said today: "Make no mistake about it: On the issue of the exclusion of women there will be no compromise and no negotiations. Women will travel everywhere, sing everywhere, vote, walk, be photographed, eulogize and work everywhere. Any other possibility is too despicable to even discuss. " (ynet) and I wondered if for the sake of peace, he would be willing to sacrifice his ideal mentioned above.

I'm truly sorry if the (historically accurate statement) above is so offensive and threatening to your worldview that you believe even posing the question will alienate readers.

Lior said...

Jameel: I do not know who you are, but I have been reading your blog for quite sometime. Definitely not a Likud voter and maybe even left of center, I place myself smack in the middle on many issues in Israel.

Your last comment truly astounded me, demonstrating an impressive historical background and sociological analysis. Pulling that seemingly archaic quote by el-Husseini out of thin air and documenting its source was perhaps the most impressive piece of research I have ever seen on your blog.

Please keep blogging and ignore the trolls who dislike your politics.

(And no, I would never trade my freedom to be immodest for anything)

Daniel said...

they would be quick to forcibly sacrifice the payot of all male Chareidi children

Anonymous said...

Yeah long as it doesn't effect their lives they ,yack,yack... So good point. Oh and what would really be cool is if all the peace now, lefty people would simply don their shorts and low cut shirts while going to the arabs and say we come in peace, literally this would surely be accepted. LOL

Gee a Moron said...

I thought that one who demands "sacrifices for peace" or similar phrases is merely a manager, an off-stage actor, but not an active participant. It's for others to make the actual sacrifice as in "I demand that you abandon your home for the sake of peace."

Nachum said...

Oh, if the Muslims demand, the Left will do. Look at Europe.

Jameel @ The Muqata said...

Nachum: I think you are mistaken. I don't believe that Israel's liberalism would be willing to sacrifice their mode of living for a more conservative lifestyle...even for "peace"

Vox Populi said...

Wait, so all this Palestinian nationalism business was just about girls being allowed to wear shorts? What a hilarious misunderstanding! No wonder they're so chummy with the Neturei Karta!

Anonymous said...

Isn't a leftest someone, who has not yet been affected by some one or something.

Nachum said...

Jameel: Not for "peace," for "multiculturalism" and to prove that, God forbid, they're not "racist."

Anonymous said...

I must admit, that did make me laugh hard. Amin al-Husseini disliked the Jews because of how they dressed immodestly. That's good stuff. I guess that's why he wanted them exterminated.
Perhaps you should quote some of his other statements, likening Jews to vermin or advocating violence. I believe that if you dig through his numerous antisemitic rantings, you may find that he disliked Jews because of how they spoke, how they drove, how they defiled Islam because of their existence, and their choice of aftershave. In other words, context is everything.
Good one.
Oh, Lior, I don't think the term troll is meant to refer to anyone who disagrees with a blogger's point of view.

josh said...

I recall during the LebanonII war from some translated Hezbollah crap that there were fighting against the Zionist filth that make the land impure. The Arabs really do think the secular Jews are monkeys. On the other hand, there is respect for our religious leaders. I'm not saying that Arabs do not kill religious Jews because we are all dehumanized monkeys now.

Rav Shmuel Eliyahu in a recent drasha said that the whole Arab world become more religious extremist is an opportunity for us if we know how to stand our ground from a religious POV and I suppose, make sacrifices for peace by all of us becoming religious.

Lior said...

Anonymous: Lame. (and take that in whatever context you wish)

teacher in israel said...

Your enemy hates you and wants to destroy you, and you reward their "good" intentions with land prizes... hmm..

Liberal Bias  said...

I value your important and informative point of view here. You have written this article so nice and informative. Thanks for sharing your time and effort.

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