Thursday, March 19, 2009

Allegations agaisnt IDF based on rumors, not fact.

Updated: In addition to my post below, the following YNET article appeared as well. There are probably thousands of furious IDF reserve soldiers who are disgusted by Haaretz's report, and the slander from an IDF NCO who wasn't even in Gaza (let alone seen battle).

"I don’t believe there were soldiers who were looking to kill (Palestinians) for no reason," said 21-year-old Givati Brigade soldier Assaf Danziger, who was lightly injured three days before the conclusion of Operation Cast Lead.

"What happened there was not enjoyable to anyone; we wanted it to end as soon as possible and tried to avoid contact with innocent civilians," he said.


A Paratroopers Brigade soldier who also participated in the war called the claims "nonsense". Speaking on condition of anonymity, he said "It is true that in war morality can be interpreted in many different ways, and there are always a few idiots who act inappropriately, but most of the soldiers represented Israel honorably and with a high degree of morality.

"For instance, on three separate occasions my company commander checked soldiers' bags for stolen goods. Those who stole the smallest things, like candy, were severely punished," he said.

"We were forbidden from sleeping in Palestinians' beds even when we had no alternate accommodations, and we didn’t touch any of their food even after we hadn't had enough to eat for two days."
Israel's most anti-Zionist Hebrew daily newspaper, Haaretz, let loose with a bombshell of an "exclusive expose" today about the IDF's actions during the "Cast Lead" operation in Gaza: IDF in Gaza: Killing civilians, vandalism, and lax rules of engagement

Haaretz "reports:"

During Operation Cast Lead, Israeli forces killed Palestinian civilians under permissive rules of engagement and intentionally destroyed their property, say soldiers who fought in the offensive.

The soldiers are graduates of the Yitzhak Rabin pre-military preparatory course at Oranim Academic College in Tivon. Some of their statements made on Feb. 13 will appear Thursday and Friday in Haaretz. Dozens of graduates of the course who took part in the discussion fought in the Gaza operation.
The reporter goes on to beat his own drum in a separate "analysis" piece entitled, "Can Israel dismiss its own troops' stories from Gaza?"

The statements of the Israel Defense Forces soldiers from the Yitzhak Rabin preparatory course provide the first, uncensored look at what occurred in some of the combat units in Operation Cast Lead.

It seems that what soldiers have to say is actually the way things happened in the field, most of the time. And as usual, reality is completely different from the gentler version provided by the military commanders to the public and media during the operation and after.

The soldiers are not lying, for the simple reason that they have no reason to. If you read the transcript that will appear in Haaretz Friday, you will not find any judgment or boasting. This is what the soldiers, from their point of view, saw in Gaza. There is a continuity of testimony from different sectors that reflects a disturbing and depressing picture.
Now, I know plenty of soldiers who saw action in Gaza during the "Cast Lead" operation, and no one that I know saw anything remotely similar to what Haaretz described.

Fast forward to a few minutes ago. Channel 2 TV Army correspondent Roni Daniel stated at 6:30 PM this evening, that he personally tracked down one of the soldiers interviewed for the Haaretz article. Apparently the soldier's testimony to Haaretz wasn't based on anything he personally saw or witnessed, rather based on rumors and hearsay he heard (and the soldier wasn't even in Gaza!)

Truth is rarely important to Haaretz, as long as it can bash the IDF, Israel, settlers, religious Jews, or anyone not agreeing with them. As a result of their propaganda article, the entire planet picked up on their "expose" and the poison keeps propagating around the world...

Gaza-Krieg: Israels Soldaten berichten über wahlloses Töten FACTS - Ausland 12:08

Soldaten schockieren mit Aussagen über Gaza-Krieg - Politik 11:58

IDF killed civilians in Gaza under lax rules of engagement Guerrilla News Network - Headlines 11:53

Wahlloses Töten in Gaza 11:52

Gaza-Krieg – Soldaten gestehen wahlloses Töten Die Welt Online 11:44

Israeli army orders investigation into unethical actions in Gaza Xinhua Online - Middle East 11:39

Soldados israelíes mataron a palestinos indefensos en Gaza, según militares Yahoo! Espana - Mundo 11:28

Los soldados israelíes mataron civiles en Gaza con órdenes "laxas" de combate Yahoo! Espana - Mundo 11:28

Soldados israelenses mataram palestinos indefensos em Gaza 19/03/2009 08:24 CorreioWeb - Mundo 11:25

- Exterior » Soldados israelenses mataram civis em Gaza sem representar ameaça, diz jornal Clica Brasilia - Ultimas Noticias 11:22

Israeli troops in Gaza fought under 'permissive rules of engagement' The Earth Times 11:09

Israel matou civis indiscriminadamente em Gaza, diz jornal - Ultimas Noticias 11:00

UPDATE: Israelis Describe Wanton Killings Of Gaza Civilians Nasdaq - Global Markets 11:00

MK Tibi demands State commission of inquiry on Gaza offensive YnetNews 10:59

Soldados israelenses mataram civis indefesos em Gaza JB Online - Internacional

Israel: Soldaten bezeugen Kriegsverbrechen in Gaza 10:54

Israeli soldiers kill Palestinian civilians in Gaza Xinhua Online - Home 10:43

IDF orders probe into allegations over Gaza war Ha'aretz 10:36

Journal describes Gaza killings The National - Middle East 10:33

Israelis describe wanton killings of Gaza civilians Middle East Online 10:32

Mark my words My prediction: this entire story will turn out to be a tempest in a teapot, but the damage caused to Israel and the IDF has already been inflicted by Haaretz.

I'm sure their investigative reporters are already figuring out how the IDF bakes matza with blood.

Wherever I am, my blog turns towards Eretz Yisrael טובה הארץ מאד מאד


Anonymous said...


I am certainly not placing stock in the allegations and won't unless the IDF investigation reveals these things occurred. But I would caution you against statements like "Mark my words -- this entire story will turn out to be a tempest in a teapot." Because if they turn out to be true, you lose credibility as a blogger and reliable source of information.

Another point. This is not just being reported by Ha'aretz, but also by Ynet and JPost. Not that this makes the allegations more credible.

Jameel @ The Muqata said...

Hi Aussie Dave; I'm simply reporting the news from Channel 2. I could revise the statement, but I would be willing to bet its a tempest in a teapot.

Actually, the ynet story is now in much worse shape than Haaretz. The YNET story says that only 2 NCO's related stories of alleged abuse.

Now that Roni Daniel has done his investigation so far, 50% of the evidence has been found to be purely based on hearsay, and the NCO wasn't even in Gaza.

Yet thanks for your comment -- I think I'll modify the post.

Anonymous said...

"Mark my words -- this entire story will turn out to be a tempest in a teapot.

No it won't, because the damage has already been done - even after it will all have been shown to be false.

Anonymous said...

What ever happed to that story that I vaguely remember where Ayala Chason made up something about a right wing plot, somewhat "lo haya, velo nivra"?

Jewish Odysseus said...

I can report that this evening on NBC Nightly News (USA), the reliably Israel-bashing Martin Fletcher and his hnechman, anchor David Gregory, made this the #1 international news story.

Needless to say this is just more media fraud designed to slowly squeeze the life out of the small nation of Israel. What next, that IDF commandoes are kidnapping Gentile babies for blood for Passover matzoh?

Thanks, Ha'aretz, may a friendly Arab terror bomber strike YOUR cafeteria soon, hopefully while the suits are sitting down for lunch.

Whatta disgrace.

Anonymous said...

haaretz is partly own by Neven Dumont Group from Cologne Germany. Former owner Kurt Neven dumont was member of Naziparty. Therefor no surprise....

Gee a Moron said...

Is there a basis for some soldiers who were serving in Gaza to sue HaAretz for slander, defamation of character?

Anonymous said...


interesting article. I cited you here:

Best wishes

Anonymous said...

when there is smoke, there is fire ... im sure some of the allegations are true and if so they should be tried according to Israeli law. Shooting a person in cold blood is murder even if that person is an arab during war time conditions. Murder is Murder - it doesnt matter if its a Jew, Christian or Muslim. Destorying Gaza civilian property and spraying offensive grafitti on the walls of family homes is completely unacceptable and the perpetrators should be prosecuted as if they had done it to a Jewish home.

Anonymous said...

Now, why was I so sure that if I came over here, I'd find this subject posted???

I come over here with a request:

My hometown newspaper has posted, favorably, the Haaretz version, and it is en-angering to say the least.

My request: would someone from here like to go over there and register to post, and put out a lawyer-type, sane-type rebuttal?


The address is:

Thank you.
-- Ma Sands

Anonymous said...

The head of the Rabin premilitary academy is known for his left-win views, refusal to serve, and most importantly his thesis that IDF soldiers act immorally in war (and he is the head of the academy).

Anyone else notice something wrong with that picture?

Anonymous said...

Dave pontificated: im sure some of the allegations are true and if so they should be tried according to Israeli law.

make up your mind. If you are sure some of the allegations are true, then why do you write if so?

You see zero possibility of the story being fabricated -- why is that? Were you in Gaza? Do you know anyone in the IDF? Are is your entire worldview based on what Haaretz writes?

Anonymous said...

Haaretz editorials are libels after libels, IDF soldiers are "disgusted"? what a bunch of idiots, if you are "defamed" not "disgusted" just sue Haaretz . This is not the first time after gaza war

why that daniel reisner never sued Haaretz?

in israel the far left do whatever they want to because everybody accept it, now cry like crybabies

Anonymous said...

its not only haaretz reporting on it, its also maariv, yediot, jpost, channel 2, channel 10 and the IBA.

if the allegations are true, should the soldiers responsible not be accountable for their actions ?

is it right for any soldier to vandalize palestinian property ?

Lurker said...

It turns that the reports of shocking Israeli war crimes in the Gaza Strip are actually all completely true. Apparently the atrocities were committed by the very same Israeli war criminals who carried out the infamous Massacre of Jenin in 2002, the most atrocious war crime of the modern age...

Your Correspondent said...

While there are some pigs out there who will use any half-baked story to libel Israel, there are also a lot of people who will patiently wait for the outcome of a serious investigation.

There is no way to avoid investigating, and no way to avoid the delay while this happens. What Israel can control is the quality of the investigation.

The change of government that is going on right now doesn't help us get organized. On the other hand, it might allow Bibi to blame the previous administration, if needed.

This, in turn, puts pressure on Ehud Barack and on Bibi to get rid of him as Defense Minister. If this were a movie then that would be the motive for the stories. But this is not a movie. Yet.

Your Correspondent said...

On second thought, how in heck can this stuff be investigated? The victims, if any, are in Gaza. Most of the potential witnesses are in Gaza too.

The government would have to enter in force, shooting their way in, to investigate if there had been too much shooting. This is absurd.

Sometimes, if you work a tough problem, you find a way around obstacles. But I don't see a way around this one.

Meanwhile, our enemies may already be using the story in their propaganda. Hamas could easily come up with fake witnesses, if needed.

If the people making the charges had gone to the police, there might have been a way for investigators to question both IDF and Gaza witnesses separately, looking for corroboration or contradiction. But with the whole story public, there is no corroboration available. That is, any corroboration will be suspected of being propaganda lies.

Anonymous said...

I'm so glad someone else is posting abut this ''story.''
I did a Google search on both the researcher and his ''war college'' and found no link older than the day these stories hit.
Is Oranim College even a real college?
Did the ''researcher,'' Dany Zamir, get a degree from anywhere?
Seems like a print version of fauxtography to me.

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