Wednesday, April 20, 2011

Second Day Yuntif

So I've visiting good friends today who came to Israel for Pesach. I was going to visit them last night and photograph their 2nd Seder for them, but we were so exhausted after a full day (of eating) that we simply collapsed from exhaustion once the first day ended.

I've got too much to do today, so this won't be a full (or overly researched/detailed) post, but I want to quickly talk about the "Additional Day of Chag" business that visiting Jews keep in Eretz Yisrael.

I think it is wrong.

Yes, I understand the possible Halachic/custom issues (such as they are just visiting, or that they shouldn't then get confused about the idea and only keep 1 day in Galut).

But simply put, it's wrong for a Jew to keep 2 days of Chag in Eretz Yisrael.

Halachic issues aside (Bal Tosif and there is no S'feika d'Yoma in Eretz Yisrael), for me the issue indicates a bigger problem.

To me it means that for Jews in Galut, they are still in Galut even when physically in Eretz Yisrael.

True, we don't have a Temple yet (but we are hopefully getting closer to Korban Pesach), but this is Eretz Yisrael. The center of worldwide Jewish life. The place where 1 day of Chag is kept - d'oraisa.

What are these Jews going to do when the Temple is rebuilt?

Ask the Cohen Gadol to make a second sacrifice for them the next day because they are only visiting?

It's time that Jews visiting Israel realize that even if they are only zocheh to be here for the Chag, that they are still home, and they should only be keeping 1 day of Yom Tov.

Chag Sameach.

(This post represents the views only of the author).

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Risa Tzohar said...

With you all the way, Joe!

Anonymous said...

Nope - absolutely disagree. Having one day of chag is a perk of making aliyah. People not living here in Israel should not hold one day until such time as they are here permanently.

Anonymous said...

"Baal Tosif"

It's בל תוסיף not בעל תוסיף

"To me it means that for Jews in Galut, they are still in Galut even when physically in Eretz Yisrael."

That's just being honest. They ARE still in galut. Their home is in galut, their job, their possessions, everything. They are on a temporary trip away from galut, but still live in galut. They should change that, but until they do so, why pretend that things are otherwise.

JoeSettler said...

I changed it to Bal. But it looks funny to me.

Anonymous said...

Off topic but funny...

“On Pesach it is a mitzvah to take a peanut and hold it and say Leshem Yichud Kudsha Brich Hu…Hineni Muchan U’mzuman Lekayem Mitzvat Lo Taaseh Shel Bal Tosif; say borei pri ha’adama and eat the peanut.”

Lebetkin said...

We're ALL living in galut - irrispective of where you physically Or if you made Aliyah. The definition of Galut is not having a Beit HaMikdash and being able to bring the korbanot.

Fern Chasida said...

I agree. I think minhag hamakom - if you're in Israel you keep one day and if you're in chul you keep 2 days.

Anonymous said...

The bottom line is that the Rabbinic establishment are not serious about halachah (and nor are we who let them get away with it). If they were they wouldn't allow the continued farce of so called second day Yom Tov (or kitniyot or the rest). If they/we were serious about halachah wouldn't allow people to get away with all the brachot levatolot, wrong laining, not putting on tefillin on isru chag etc. that 8 days involve. The bottom line is that we aren't serious about halacha.

Yellow Boy

Anonymous said...

Every time people disagree with me, it must be because they aren't serious and don't care.

Purple Boy

Avraham said...

I like your reasoning, but the bottom line is that as long as the vast majority of Orthodox rabbis in America (across the modern-yeshivish spectrum) pasken that their congregants must keep yom tov sheni in Israel, I am not comfortable going against them. I am working on making this whole question largely irrelevant for me.

Anonymous said...

Try to convince an Israeli in Galut to keep 2 days. Bet you can't!

JoeSettler said...

I don't think an Israeli should keep 2 days if just visiting chul for the chag.

There's no actual sfeika d'yoma in most locations and they're just visiting, not joining the community.

(Though in an area with Jews they shouldn't do anything in public.)

It's definitely a different case than someone in Israel for chag.

Anonymous said...

I have admittedly not studied the issue, but I don't understand the ruling that a Jew whose life is based in Galut should keep two days when in Israel. These are pilgrimage festivals, after all --- Jews who live outside EY are supposed to come and visit during the chagim!

In the time of the second temple, if a Jew who lived in Bavel came to Jerusalem for Chag, did he keep two days? Somehow I think not...

Anonymous said...

Joe, there's no sfeika d'yoma ANYWHERE. If you want to be logical about this, a Jew in Eretz Yisrael should observe one day, and a Jew in Chul should observe two days -- no exceptions or rationalizations. (Any discussions about parts of EY being outside of Bayit Sheni EY are not really germane to your cental point, btw.)

Blue and White

JoeSettler said...

It's not 100% that simple.

There is no longer a real sfeika dyoma (as you pointed out) as our calendar and Rosh Chodesh/Rosh Hashana are fixed and 2 days is simply kept out of custom (though our calendar may be slightly off at this point).

But there is another real sfeika dyoma, where the Gemorah and Meforshim (Rosh Hashana 20b and somewhere else, but I can't find it right now) discuss the possible location of the Jewish equivalent of the International Date Line. The most logical position (IMHO) places it 6 hours East of Eretz Yisrael. Though some place it at the border of Eretz Yisrael and others 12 hours ahead, or 6 hours behind.

And then there is also the standard International Date Line,

That is a real S'feika D'yoma, even though there are enough rulings about it at this point.

But as I recall, length of residence does play a role in taking on a custom. Is visiting a factor here, or is local custom not the issue because it's a global custom?

There are still plenty of factors involved.

JoeSettler said...

B&W: By the way, I believe that's how Chabbad does it.

Anonymous said...

Can someone explain to me why, when being in chul in and of itself does not cause any sfeika d'yoma , because the calender is fixed, we allow a mere custom to overrule actual halacha (correct tefilot on the correct day, teffilin, brachot levatalot etc.)?

I find it incredible that we still do this, the halachik order of priorities is completely upside-down.

Yellow Boy

Anonymous said...

YB: The 2 day chag in chul is NOT a mere custom -- it's a din d'rabbanan (otherwise you'd be right -- the custom could not override halachot about tefillin, brachot, etc.) The halachic complexities are in the exact parameters of the d'rabbanan such as would a ben chul keep 2 days or 1 in EY.)

Joe: You're right, there ARE sfeikot d'yoma today, as you mentioned - and what about the "land of the midnight sun"? However, we were discussing sfeika d'yoma as it pertains to 1day/2days of chag. See my reply to YB above.

We're not discussing "custom" here, but dinim/takanot d'rabannan.

BTW, Rosh Hashana was set by the rabannan to be two days as a takana during the days of Bayit Sheni. It was not a simple case of sfeika d'yoma, but of potential/actual confusion involving the Temple service on Rosh Hashana. Not just a "custom". See, e.g., Rosh Hashana 30b.

Chag Kasher V'Sameach!

Blue and White

Lurker said...

I have always observed one day of Yom Tov in Israel, and two days in hu"l, regardless of where I lived: When I lived in hu"l and visited Israel, I observed one day. Now I live in Israel, but when I visit hu"l during Yom Tov, I observe two days.

This, btw, is the psak of the Haham Tzvi (17th-18th century), who explicitly wrote that anyone who observes two days of Yom Tov in the land of Israel is in direct violation of bal tosif.

I'm surprised you didn't write about the most peculiar custom of them all -- observing "one-and-a-half" days (not doing melakha on the second day, but still davening tefillot shel hol). This utterly bizarre but ubiquitous practice never even existed until a few decades ago (there is no prior source for it anywhere); it was borne of of the modern frum world's pathological chumra-compulsion, and was was fabricated in the mid-20th century...

JoeSettler said...

"One-and-a-half" days to me seems utterly ridiculous and self-contradictory.

I did it once many decades ago when visiting the US when the local Rabbi first told me that I should do it that way when I mentioned I was keeping 2 days in Chul.

I quickly realized that this was not a compromise solution, but rather the worst and most halachically problematic solution, and probably based on fear of actually making a decisive halachic decision one way or the other (a common problem).

I never did that again and for a short while alternated between 1 and 2 days (in chul), until I finally settled for 1 day when I felt clear that I was permanently living in Eretz Yisrael and definitely only visiting.

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